Rosella/Roselle wine first attempt

[Shayne Edwards]

Why did I write the title as “first attempt”, if you read the last thread that I posted around the Super Spicy Ginger Wine you would have guessed already. For those who didn’t read it let me start out the same way. I have conservatively buggered up at least 90 litres wine so far and if you decide to follow my approach be it upon your own head.

That said, the last thread described all my previous mistakes before joining this wonderful forum and even though nothing could be fixed, five awesome members valiantly offered advice in the hope I may learn something. My hat is off to Messers Wildhair, Arne, Sour Grapes, AK Tom and Bernard Smith.

So here we are, describing my next wine making effort in pretty much real time, (as opposed to last times historical approach), feel free to jump in with criticism, advice and the odd pun. Who knows you may well help move me a little further into the black side of the wine making ledger. Currently it stands at 90 litres poured down the drain vs 23 litres moving towards bottling success.

 

[Stressbaby]

With that sort of balance sheet, I'd say post here BEFORE you do anything you aren't sure about. Rarely is anything in winemaking so urgent that it can't wait for a reply here.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Where to start?
Right now I am in the deep dark depths of a Brisbane winter. Some nights it gets down to a chilly 10 degrees C (0 degrees freezes water, 100 degrees boils it) Daytimes sometimes make only 22 degrees, last year I actually had to put on a jumper for a couple of hours.
Without using heat pads etc it isn’t a perfect time for our little fermenting yeasty friends. So I hear you ask why the hell are you trying to make another batch of wine?
Well the simple response is, my Scottish monster in law is here, combining her with my Scottish wife produces an irresistible force. Apparently my beer and bait fridge/freezer out in the shed is no longer a sacred man cave relic. Space had to be cleared for the preservation of Scottish treats like haggis, black pudding, scotch pies and square sausage. Quite frankly, I need the bait and the two frozen bottles of vodka, so I pulled the bags of last seasons frozen Rosellas.
So instead of making a nice safe and reliable batch of jam or cordial, I decided to try and make some wine from them. In all honesty I may have checked out a beer or two while repacking the freezer, but that wasn’t the final arbiter of decision making, pretty sure it was my innate stupidity that put me here. So here we go again. (It’s not nasturtiums Tom but it’s close enough for government work)

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Thanks Stress Baby, I appreciate the advice and I am trying hard to write down all that I have done so far in this attempt. I ended up worried about the fruit going off so I powered on. I may have stuffed up already but I hope not, as I write this I am waiting for the must to cool and haven’t added anything other than sugar to the fruit. From here onwards I will wait for advice before jumping forward.
If it helps there are photos to follow, along with recipes etc.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

If anyone was wondering what Rosellas are, they are part of the hibiscus family. When i make jam or cordial they taste like berry and sherbet combined. I’ve been wondering if they would make a wine that tastes slightly “spritzige” Photo above.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

When making jam you have to seperate the internal seed pod from the external flesh. You use the seed pods to produce (pectin) the thickening agent for the jam. I separated the fruit and discarded the seed pods.

 

[wildhair]

First - my sympathy goes out to you. To be trapped in the winter with 2 Scottish females - a frightening proposition to be sure. I hope the visit will be brief and pleasant. Haggis? One of those foods that the mere description of it's contents makes you get up from the table.

This sounds interesting and count me in for the next chapter.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Yesterday was the 3rd of June, Rosella flesh went into the vege crisper while I hunted the internet for a recipe. Found some Indonesian videos on YouTube and some reworking of Jack Keller’s recipe using dried Rosellas to make wine. Amazing how all those original bloggers came up with the same recipe as he did. Either way didn’t cover how to do undried fruit.
In a moment of brilliance I searched the other spelling, Roselle and there was Jack Keller again with a recipe for raw fruit. A little different to the dried recipe as this one used sultanas. Bit strange but here it is stepped up.
2lbs Rosella flesh
4lbs Sugar
1lb raisins or sultanas minced
3tsps Acid blend
2tsps Yeast nutrient
1 pkg yeast
14 pints water
Boil sugar and water pour over bag of fruit in the primary, add every thing but the yeast. Wait until cooled add activated yeast. Cover primary, squeeze bag everyday until ferment slows then rack to carbouy. Rack monthly until clear.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Tonight June 4th
Stole unused wife’s unused mesh bag for washing her smalls. Packed sultanas and rosellas in it. Added sugar and water simmered for almost an hour. Dumped into 20 litre bucket. Nothing else added.
Couldn’t buy acid blend so I will mix tartric, maliec and citric acid in the morning. 40:40:20 to add. Only have EC1118 yeast in the fridge.
How am I doing??

 

[Shayne Edwards]

What about pectonaise?

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Night all, and g’day Red.

 

[Stressbaby]

That is Hibiscus sabdariffa. Tried growing it in the greenhouse a few years back, succeeded in killing it. May try again one day, as the rest of my Hibiscus grow very well. Supposed to make the best hibiscus wine.

EC-1118 should work. I'd omit the malic and mix ONLY the tartaric and citric. Ratio up to you, I'd probably go 50:50 but you would probably be fine with straight tartaric, straight citric, or anything in between.

I've made hibiscus wine from the flowers before and it has a unique viscosity to it. Plenty of body. When made from flowers, if you squeeze the bag at the end of primary, you see why. You get this stuff the consistency of oil or glycerin dripping from the bag - it's called mucilage - kinda like what you see in okra. IF YOU START TO SEE THAT, DON'T OVERSQUEEZE. Back off let it drip drain only. Rosellas may not do that like the flowers, not sure, but you are warned.

Also, this mucilage is at least partially fermentable. So if you have it don't be surprised if it looks like the fermenation goes on for 3-4 week. I can't prove it but I believe that is the yeast working on the mucilage.

 

[wildhair]

Re: - pectonaise (or pectic enzyme) - I don't believe it's really needed for flower based wines. However - since you added sultanas (dried white raisins) and since it doesn't add any flavor on it's own - I would add a 1/2t pectic enzyme powder (+/-) per gal to the must.
Like drinking chicken soup when you're sick - it might not help, but it can't hurt,

And please - someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

That is Hibiscus sabdariffa. Tried growing it in the greenhouse a few years back, succeeded in killing it. May try again one day, as the rest of my Hibiscus grow very well. Supposed to make the best hibiscus wine.

EC-1118 should work. I'd omit the malic and mix ONLY the tartaric and citric. Ratio up to you, I'd probably go 50:50 but you would probably be fine with straight tartaric, straight citric, or anything in between.

I've made hibiscus wine from the flowers before and it has a unique viscosity to it. Plenty of body. When made from flowers, if you squeeze the bag at the end of primary, you see why. You get this stuff the consistency of oil or glycerin dripping from the bag - it's called mucilage - kinda like what you see in okra. IF YOU START TO SEE THAT, DON'T OVERSQUEEZE. Back off let it drip drain only. Rosellas may not do that like the flowers, not sure, but you are warned.

Also, this mucilage is at least partially fermentable. So if you have it don't be surprised if it looks like the fermenation goes on for 3-4 week. I can't prove it but I believe that is the yeast working on the mucilage.

The Hibiscus flower wine sounds really interesting, I would like to hear a bit more about it, if you have time. At one point I had an amazing collection of them they are pretty close to being my favourite flower.
The tyranny of distance and time zones is interfering a little here along with my fear of screwing up yet again, one of my fails was watermelon wine, I used a recipe from the net religiously and had it turn a few days in to the ferment and I worry it was because I dilly dallied around for too long. So what I’m trying to say is that I made the acid blend and added it this morning after checking the thread for responses. In your experience what is the down side of using the Malic Acid component in the acid blend? At least I only made enough for this batch.
When doing jam it is the seed cases that seem to produce an okra like substance, so hopefully I have dodged this but I will keep checking and report back. Again thanks for the advice.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

First - my sympathy goes out to you. To be trapped in the winter with 2 Scottish females - a frightening proposition to be sure. I hope the visit will be brief and pleasant. Haggis? One of those foods that the mere description of it's contents makes you get up from the table.

This sounds interesting and count me in for the next chapter.

Och Rrred, a wee bit ‘e haggis is gud fer wha’ ails ye mon. Have to admit though the Scots in stereo is a bit confronting. My 12 yr old son loves his Gran and every morning before I take him to the school bus stop I encourage him to give his Gran a hug and every morning she hugs him back and whispers in a fierce Scots accent just what cleaning she has planned for him to do when he gets home from school. His room has never looked better by the way.
This morning I suggested he go and give his much loved Gran a hug, wee Callum looked at me straight in the eye and said,”No way dad, she’s just going to make me clean again.” Funny thing is I don’t hug her either anymore, I’m still trying to finish the jobs from her last visit.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

I have to admit that one of the things I am trying to get my head around is the whole put your must in a bucket, add the yeast and then each day give it a good stir while just covering it with a clean cloth.
Surely this is encouraging other bugs to get in on the act and bugger up your batch of wine??
When Mr Keller asks you to get in and squeeze your bag of fruit each day, doesn’t this leave you open to the same risk. That said, I am being brave this time and using this approach, have to say though that the idea of sticking my hands in a bucket of bleach each day before doing this isn’t much fun. Happy time in the shower will be changed fairly dramatically for me.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Recipe and steps so far.
2lb- 920gms of Rosella Calyx (Red flesh left after yellow flower has fallen off, seed pod removed)
2.3 Kg white sugar (2.2 lbs = 1 kilo)
.5 kg chopped minced sultanas
3 tsps acid blend
2 tsp s yeast nutrient
1 pkg EC1118 yeast
10 litres water

Put sultanas and fruit into nylon mesh bag, place into large boiler and cover with 10 litres of water, add sugar and stir while bringing to the boil. Reduce to a simmer and stir occasionally. Continue for 45minutes to an hour, remove from heat. Sugar should be dissolved by the time you reduce to a simmer.

Remove from heat and transfer to primary and cover with a clean cloth (in this case a 20 litre food grade plastic bucket). Allow to cool to a suitable temperature for pitching activated yeast.

Before pitching yeast add acid blend, half of the yeast nutrient and stir. Check and record hydrometer reading.

Add activated yeast, stir and recover.

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Ok thats everything done up until this morning, the hydrometer reading was 1.080 at 25 degrees Celsius before pitching yeast.

I still haven’t added any pectonaise (come on make a definite call on this one Red)

Must is down to 22 degrees C and there is no super obvious signs of fermentation, it is now 12 hours after the yeast pitch.

Is there anything else I should be doing right now other than seeing if I can remember how to pray??? A lightning strike or two should warm the place up if nothing else.

Planning on adding rest of the nutrient at around 1.050, does that sound right?

 

[Shayne Edwards]

Ok thats it for tonight, will check for replies and guidance around the same time tomorrow. I promise not to do one more damn thing except check for evidence of fermentation and must temperature in about 12 hours (tomorrow morning).
Thanks for the advice.

 

[wildhair]

have to say though that the idea of sticking my hands in a bucket of bleach each day before doing this isn’t much fun.

If you are ACTUALLY using bleach to sanitize your hands - I would stop that. I wash my hands and forearms with soap and water, then spray them with a squirt bottle of pre-mixed sanitizer - I use StarSan. Some use a pot. metabisulfite solution.

The Campden tablets give off SO2 gas which is what protects the must and makes it inhospitable to other "bugs" before fermentation starts. The CO2 & alcohol given off as the yeast ferment discourage other nasties. Just sanitize your tools and hands before sticking them in the must. I spritz the countertop, too wash out the sink & and any spoon rests, etc. before I get started.

As no one wiser has stepped forward to say anything - then yes - I would add the pectic enzyme. Use 1/8 teaspoon of Pectic Enzyme (liquid) for every gallon of juice/pulp at the beginning of fermentation. Twice the amount may be needed if it is added later in the process. Use 1/2 t of powdered pectic enzyme per gal of must. *

EC1118 can be slow to start fermenting, in my limited experience. I'm sure it will get going by the time you read this. I've had better luck using SN9 (Vintners Harvest) yeast for flower based wines. **

Now better get on with those cleaning chores, laddie.


* http://www.piwine.com/use-of-pectic-enzymes-in-winemaking.html

**Vintner's Harvest SN9[/I] : Very good all round strain, best choice for high alcohol and fortified wines but also excellent for most country wines, sweet sparkling wines and ciders. If you only had one wine yeast strain, this would be the strain because whilst being relatively neutral in character SN9 does introduce excellent weight and structure no matter the must or fruit and produces a congener profile that always compliments the wine. SN9 is particularly good when fermenting flower or low fruit recipes which often lack vinosity, weight and depth. SN9 is another strain noted for its robustness, being able to ferment to 18% abv ethanol, tolerate high free SO2 and high levels of other stress factors such as organic acids, incorrect temperature and pH. But unlike CL23, SN9 adds weight and high glycerol production making the strain perfect for high alcohol sweet wines or where uncertain recipes are employed and fermentation reliability is a key factor or where low temperature fermentation down to 10°C (50°F) is required. This strain is 'fermentation friendly' in that it produces zero foam, starts fermenting rapidly so avoids potential bacterial contamination and can be used to re-start stuck fermentations. SN9 is also the most osmotolerant and the fasting clearing of all Vintner's Harvest strains.