WineXpert Rumors of a new limited release from Winexpert

[cmason1957]

I assumed that was the case. I mulled about it for a few days and getting the blessing from the CFO. Also know as SWMBO. It will be here soon enough.

But I want it NOW!!!

 

[jgmann67]

Like others, I'll be interested to see what's in the box. I'm picking up a SLD Merlot first. Will get one of these directly after.

 

[geek]

Like others, I'll be interested to see what's in the box. I'm picking up a SLD Merlot first. Will get one of these directly after.

Good choice there, I hear.

 

[jgmann67]

Good choice there, I hear.

I did one of these in early 2015 and my stocks are down below a case. Need to make more, pronto.

 

[geek]

I don't really make red wine from kits any longer, but due to so many good feedback I've been debating between the WE Stags Leap Merlot or the CC Walla Walla.

@ibglowin raved about the Walla Walla when he made it some time ago...

 

[Johnd]

The Bravado Super Tuscan as delivered:
16 L juice
2 L skins
Labels
RC 212
EC 1118
30g heavy French oak chips
30g med and heavy oak chip blend
30g French oak cubes
15g bentonite x 2
4g KMS
5.5g sorbate
150ml chitosan x 2
1 strainer bag

 

[geek]

Wow, that's a lot of oak, never seen a kit with so much oak.
Bentonite, 2 packs? First time I see that too.

All in all sounds like a good kit, RC212 is a good choice, for me.

 

[Johnd]

Yep, plenty oak for primary, just 30g cubes for oaking after primary. Definitely won't be using the EC 1118, either the RC 212 or BM 4x4, will decide later.

Not sure if the kit is supposed to have two bentonites or if I got a bonus pack. I'll be waiting to see what others have when theirs come in. Two packs of chitosan too, I'm wondering they had a hard time clearing this kit and doubled up on bentonite and chitosan....................

 

[dcbrown73]

The Bravado Super Tuscan as delivered:
16 L juice
2 L skins
Labels
RC 212
EC 1118
30g heavy French oak chips
30g med and heavy oak chip blend
30g French oak cubes
15g bentonite x 2
4g KMS
5.5g sorbate
150ml chitosan x 2
1 strainer bag

That stuff isn't going to make itself! Get busy!

 

[Johnd]

That stuff isn't going to make itself! Get busy!

LOL Dave, maybe this weekend, super busy week.

 

[dcbrown73]

Wow, that's a lot of oak, never seen a kit with so much oak.
Bentonite, 2 packs? First time I see that too.

All in all sounds like a good kit, RC212 is a good choice, for me.

I believe both the Stag's Leap Merlot and the Ranch 11 Cab had chips/dust for the primary and three packages of oak cubes for the clearing stage.

 

[jsbeckton]

FYI, there is hope for the second wave of shipments. I was originally told it would be next week because I didn't order until early july but just got a notice it will be here tomorrow!

 

[opus345]

The Bravado Super Tuscan as delivered:
16 L juice
2 L skins
Labels
RC 212
EC 1118
30g heavy French oak chips
30g med and heavy oak chip blend
30g French oak cubes
15g bentonite x 2
4g KMS
5.5g sorbate
150ml chitosan x 2
1 strainer bag

I have the same list of items in my Bravado delivered this afternoon that I purchased from LP.

 

[Johnd]

I have the same list of items in my Bravado delivered this afternoon that I purchased from LP.

Well, then I suppose double bentonite and double chitosan is their plan, although I probably won't use either, opting for carboy and barrel time instead.

 

[cmason1957]

Just got my email from Labelpeelers. Looks like I should have it on Sat.

 

[Brian55]

I'll skip the chitosan, but the bentonite is supposed to assist fermentation, not clearing...

 

[dcbrown73]

I'll skip the chitosan, but the bentonite is supposed to assist fermentation, not clearing...

I have not read this. Bentonite is a clearing agent. Some people do it during fermentation some do it afterwards.

From what I read, *IF* you plan on using it, it should always be during fermentation because after fermentation requires much more bentonite. The reason being is that during fermentation, the CO2 gas helps circulate the bentonite by attaching to the CO2 bubbles and as the bubbles rise and reach the top. They pop which then allows the bentonite to move in the must. Which then allows other floating particles to attach to the bentonite helping the clearing process.

Bentonite strips the wine (which is what clearing is), if you have to use more. You stripe more of the wine which is a negative in most cases.

While some people do not like to use clearing agents, bentonite is probably one I would use before chitosan. Just for the fact that it helps stabilize the wine and of course removes much of the haze causing particles which can be difficult to remove without clearing agents sometimes I've heard.

Most of the time I believe 15 grams is considered enough during fermentation for six gallon kits. Post fermentation can require 5x as much! (I suppose you can use the same amount after fermentation, but you will be stirring the must early and very often to get the same effects) It is interesting that this kit comes with 2x the bentonite. I suppose it has something to do with the contents of the juice and skins packs requiring heavier clearing requirements in the early processes.

As I said though. I'm with you in that I would use the bentonite before the chitosan.

 

[cmsben61]

Got a e mail from LP! Mine will be delivered Saturday! Can't wait to get started

 

[Johnd]

Here's a little blurb from an article on bentonite use, from the WineMakers Academy:

"Use As Little As You Can

Besides the tartrate instability that can come from using too much bentonite there is another reason you’ll want to use this stuff sparingly. Bentonite is a “fining” agent which means that it removes various compounds from your wine. It can reduce or remove aromas, flavors, as well as color.

Sometimes it is necessary to remove off flavors and aromas, however, you don’t want to sacrifice varietal character. While your wine will be clear, it will be missing what made it special to begin with.

How Does Bentonite Work

This will get a little nerdy but it’s worth understanding. When hydrated in water the minerals in bentonite become negatively charged (i.e. ions).

The negative ions in the clay bond with positively charged particles floating around in your wine causing haziness. Generally wines are cloudy because the floating particles are all similarly charged (all positive or all negative).

Similarly charged particles don’t settle out because they resist each other like magnets of the same polarity. They need something with an opposite charge to bond with them so they’ll be neutral.

Because bentonite is negatively charged and dense when it does bond with a positively charged particle they both sink to the bottom of your carboy. Once on the bottom you can rack your clear wine off of the sediment.

Some kit manufacturers (such as Winexpert) have you add bentonite in the very beginning of the wine making process, right before the yeast. That is so the bentonite will start clarifying the wine as it’s fermented. This is one of the only clarifiers that can be added pre-fermentation.

It sits on the bottom of the fermenter and as carbon dioxide bubbles form during fermentation the bentonite is carried up to the free surface. Along the way it collects positively charged particles. When the bubble reaches the surface and pops the bentonite falls back down to the bottom collecting more particles along the way.

Thus your wine is clarifying during the entire fermentation process. This makes your wine will clear that much more quickly when you add the final clarifier just before bottling.

In Conclusion

Bentonite is an effective clarifier widely used among wine makers. As a clay it is not very reactive when it is dry or when hydrated so you don’t have to worry about skin contact.

Remember that it’s possible to use too much of it and strip your wine of its varietal characteristics. Also, store your bentonite in airtight dry containers between uses to prevent micro-organisms from taking up residence."

And a shorter passage on chitosan from Winemaker Magazine:

"Chitosan (positive charge): As the name implies, it is composed of chitin, which is the structural element of the exoskeletons of crustaceans, such as crabs, shrimp and other shell fish. Chitosan is especially popular in clearing white wines, since it does not require the aid of tannins to clear, as do some fining agents like gelatine. When used with negatively-charged Kieselsol it is an effective remover of most suspended proteins and solids.

Chitosan and Kieselsol are often sold as a set, in sealed liquid envelopes as fining A (negatively charged Kieselsol) which is added to the wine first, and then fining B (positively charged chitosan) added about a day afterwards. Chitosan has a reputation for being fairly gentle on the character of finished wine. "

So in this kit, the WE plan is to use bentonite to handle negatively charged particles, chitosan for the positively charged particles. I'm sure the quantities they've provided will get it done pretty expediently. Kieselsol and chitosan would probably also work as a combo. Again, I'm going to let Mother Nature help me along and avoid the risk of stripping anything out of the wine.

 

[jgmann67]

hmmmm... I may try a kit without the bentonite just to see what happens.