Sanitizing bottles

[Ohio Bob]

Two things... sweetening then bulk aging allows any refermentation to be caught before it’s found out with exploding bottles. Secondly, as with blending different varietals, a few weeks to blend/acclimate, however you want to describe it, gives the wine a chance to become its final self. Especially if blending different numbers, such as high acid with low acid, etc.

 

[BigDaveK]

@BigDaveK , I've started buying the PET carboys. They are less than half the price of Italian glass ones.

Is there any concern with using plastic versus glass? Assuming you do the vacuum degassing in the glass ones.

Sorry I'm full of questions... Do you apply the 1-3-3 rule to every batch? Skeeter Pee too?

I guess it's all technically wine, so I am probably answering my own question. But the author of skeeterpee.com (currently offline for some reason) seemed to believe it is completely ready to drink at bottling (2 months from start to bottling). Of course, so did DangerDave in his recipe. Darn! Guess I have to be a lot more patient than I thought!!

Ok, last question for now... Do you buy your carboys on Amazon or have you sought out a local source? Competitive in pricing?

I use the PET carboys almost exclusively and haven't had ANY negative issues yet. Weight and cost were important to me. Oh, and I drop things.

I don't follow the 1-3-3 rule. Each wine is different and each batch tells me what to do. Fortunately wine making is so darn forgiving. Once I get rid of gross lees I don't care about fine lees until I start thinking about bottling and I bulk everything at least 6 months. I bottled my first strawberry at 5 months, crystal clear, sediment showed up in the bottle. Learned my lesson.
Skeeter Pee and Dragon Blood are different, intended to be bottled early. They certainly can be enjoyed right away. My SP didn't age well, though - I prefer the taste young rather than my now 10 month old bottles. The DB was good young but it aged very well and I like it better now.

I shop around but most of my wine gear I got from Home Brew Ohio. Good prices, free shipping over $59. For example, 3 gallon PET are $19.99 at Home Brew Ohio and $29.30 at Amazon.

Keep asking questions. Everyone has their way of doing things and with experience you'll settle into what works for you.
Good luck!

 

[wbhutchins]

@winemaker81 has noted that he made a kit and bottled it at the recommended bottle date where he usually bulk ages longer, 3months+ before bottling. Because the wine was young it was still going through chemical changes and being in smaller batches (bottles), he noted distinctly different qualities between the bottles.

How long did you allow this wine to age before bottling?

I followed the Danger Dave's dragon blood recipe. The aging was very short. I think it went from the fermenter to the carboy in about two weeks, then gets degassed, cleared and sits two weeks. Then add sugar and sit an additional week before bottling. So like almost no aging before bottling. Based on other comments, I'm thinking I will bulk age at least 2 months and future batches longer once I have something in my rack to consume.

 

[wbhutchins]

The flavor will improve over time, but the difference in sweetness level probably has a different cause. It sounds like you tasted two different bottles at about the same time.

I have found it difficult to get sugar completely dissolved. I usually heat a small amount water to dissolve the sugar first, then add it to the wine. Either that, or use previously prepared simple syrup.

That's a great tip! I already know how much sugar (calculated by adding x tsp sugar to 8 ounces of wine and converting to how many gallons in the batch) so heating it to turn it into invert sugar (2x sugar, 1x water) until it's completely dissolved is a fantastic idea. Thank you!!

 

[winemaker81]

Well I read it is drinkable immediately.

Unfortunately, there may be a large gap between "drinkable" and "good". Most wines are drinkable immediately after bottling, even if on a 4 week kit schedule. Most of those get better after aging for a period of 1 to 36 months, depending on the wine.

DB is a very light wine, so it ages faster than most "regular" wines, and FAR faster than something like a heavy red. If I made DB, I'd probably bottle at 4 months, and know that after allowing a couple of weeks to get over any bottle shock, the wine was probably good. However, folks bottle DB at 4 weeks and are happy, so there is a large margin for personal decision. For your next one, bulk age an additional month and see if you like the results better.

So you are saying stabilize and clear, wait 3 weeks, then rack and backsweeten, leaving it in the carboy for 3 months? Only bummer about that is it uses up my equipment, but if that's the best way... I'll do it.

Actually no. I realize my response makes it sound that way. I was illustrating a point, and obviously badly.

My current process for small batches (19-23 liters) is to ferment for 1 to 2 weeks, depending on the wine. When the SG hits 1.010 I give it a final stir and seal the fermenter until Day 14, at which point I rack. This allows fermentation to complete, and the gross less (fruit solids) drops within 24-72 hours after fermentation completes.

The lees that drops after that is fine lees (yeast hulls), and I'll rack again in 2 to 3 weeks. This is true regardless if I use fining agents or not.

After that I bulk age. Whites, light reds, and country wines will be bottled at the 4 to 6 month mark. Heavier reds and heavy whites (e.g., Chardonnay at the 6 to 12+ month mark.

Please note that the above is not set in stone -- things will vary my schedule, including real life. Also, there are other choices (such as what kit instructions say (varies by vendor), the 1-3-3 Rule, and other ideas presented here. All work -- you can experiment and decide what works for you. And once you decide? It's not set in stone -- if you find an idea you like better, try it.

Does anyone else do this? Many people have said that we should backsweeten and then wait a few weeks to bottle. Since I usually bulk age for at least 6 months, that plus stabilization would make refermentation very unlikely. Maybe bottling the same day is fine. It helps to simplify the process.

In the past I've backsweetened and bottled within the session, and I've never had a problem with refermentation, nor with new sediment dropping in the bottle. Note that I keep my sorbate relatively fresh and stir well to ensure the sorbate and the sugar are well distributed.

 

[wbhutchins]

So much good information in this thread! Thank you all for your input!

 

[ratflinger]

I like the 1-2-4 method. 1 month fermenting, 2 months settling, 4 months bulk aging. No sediment or gas issues. Goes Speidel, glass, Better Bottles. 3 rackings.

 

[wbhutchins]

Skeeter Pee and Dragon Blood are different, intended to be bottled early. They certainly can be enjoyed right away. My SP didn't age well, though - I prefer the taste young rather than my now 10 month old bottles. The DB was good young but it aged very well and I like it better now.

I guess I'm just going to have to try things and see what works. I have no experience with SP, but I agree with you on DB.

Question about SP. Would it help to keep it refrigerated after bottling? You have me a little concerned about how much I will have to share with my friends. If it kind of goes "bad" after 6 months, that barely puts us into the summer months when I hope to consume and share it.

Also I'm planning to bottle it in clear beer bottles and cap, instead of cork.

 

[BigDaveK]

I guess I'm just going to have to try things and see what works. I have no experience with SP, but I agree with you on DB.

Question about SP. Would it help to keep it refrigerated after bottling? You have me a little concerned about how much I will have to share with my friends. If it kind of goes "bad" after 6 months, that barely puts us into the summer months when I hope to consume and share it.

Also I'm planning to bottle it in clear beer bottles and cap, instead of cork.

It doesn't go "bad", really. To me it doesn't get "better". And you know, I'm thinking....maybe it hasn't changed at all. Some of my wines I really like and maybe subconsciously I'm comparing them?

I don't have any experience with beer bottles and caps but others do. As I recall it works fine. I have used the Grolsch style bottles for some I think I'll drink in a couple months. They worked great and saves me a bottle and a cork.

 

[winemaker81]

Most wines are good for at least a year, excepting Beaujolais Nouveau, which is good for about 3 months. DB is probably good for a year. SP? Due to the high acid content, it may be good longer, but I'd plan on a year.

Honestly? If it's good now, drink it now. It's not a wine that should be saved. Plan another batch around March.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Question about SP. Would it help to keep it refrigerated after bottling? You have me a little concerned about how much I will have to share with my friends. If it kind of goes "bad" after 6 months, , , , , planning to bottle it in clear beer bottles and cap, instead of cork.

You have two types of going bad chemical and microbiological.
The answer for chemical/ oxidation issues is to have low head space, limited air at bottling, enough (50ppm) free SO2, uniform storage temp, no/ low light exposure and then process issues as no iron or brass valves.
As far as micro issues; time lets yeast die/ settle out, limited air keeps most families from growing and combined with over 5% ABV pathogens aren’t an issue, low pH keeps pathogens out, beer caps are better than cork, this leaves yeast if you bottle young there can be some but a refrigerator or Potassium sorbate will keep them from growing.

Air exposure/ acetaldehyde (oxidized ethyl alcohol) is the most common issue.

 

[Jovimaple]

My SP and DB both get smoother with age. I think it's an improvement on both. I like the SP right away AND when it has aged into a smoother wine. I wasn't a huge fan of the triple berry DB at first, but when we opened a couple bottles I had saved for a year, I completely changed my mind and plan to make it again soon!