Scaling up.

[codeman]

So right now I ferment in 8 gallon plastic containers. Then transfer to 6 gallon carboys. This works well for small batches and such. But I'm wanting to scale up now.
I see a lot of people ferment in food grade garbage cans or large plastic barrels (40+ gallons etc.)
How do you guys go about transferring this to a secondary or another vessel for long term storage and clearing/racking etc.? 40+ gallons isn't something you can just lift like a 6 gallon carboy.
I plan on buying some FlexTanks for storage.
Do you fit spigots near the bottom of the primary containers and lift them? Simply siphon enough out and try to lift it?
I hope I'm reasonably clear in what I'm asking. Thank you.

 

[GreginND]

At a 40 gallon scale, I find a ShurFlo 3 gpm diaphram pump works well.

Here's the one I use:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001FAA5Y/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Be really careful about solids and sediments in this. It can't handle solids. I would suggest adding the little filter screen attachment.

 

[codeman]

So do you just run star san through that to clean it?

 

[Deezil]

I bought a heavy duty medical aspirator off of Wade when he was selling the vacuum pumps, and it handles it all just fine using a 5/8th inch hose. By the time fermentation is over, most everything is mush so I stir it all into solution with the racking cane as it's siphoning into carboys.

I'm not sure if flex tanks have a way to modify the opening to handle a bung, or can handle the pressure

 

[codeman]

Well I'll be doing all whites so pressing after fermentation isn't something I'll need to do.

 

[GreginND]

So do you just run star san through that to clean it?

Yes, you can run star san or a sulfite solution through it. I prefer to run sulfite because it is less acidic, but I can't imagine that a star san flush would hurt it.

 

[Rocky]

Codeman, I made a bench/platform that is about 30" high and I set the large fermentation containers up on the unit with a spigot at the bottom. I can transfer from there to carboys with no problem using only gravity. I could use an auto siphon if need be, also. In your case, a transfer pump would be a better choice than a vacuum pump. I think it would be much faster and you would not have to have the receiving carboy under vacuum.

 

[grapeman]

No the Flex Tanks will not hold up to a vacuum. You could set up a receiving carboy above the FlexTank and use a vacuum pump to get the wine into that, then use an auto siphon to get from that carboy to the tank- but it is double handling the product. A small transfer pump like Greg showed works well for those small amounts. You can get the pumps either in 12V DC or 120 V AC. You will need to wire it up so be sure you or a friend can handle that.

 

[JohnT]

.. Well I have to say a lot depends on what kind of secondary you have. I assume that you are probably going with glass (perhaps 3 or 4 54liter demijohns?)

If you are going with glass, then I would recommend that you use a vacuum pump like the all-in-one or perhaps an enolmatic filler. This would also have the added benefit of degassing.

If your secondary is not glass and is not rigid, then you will need to go with either raising the primary up (in order to syphon) or using a small transfer pump as others have suggested.

 

[codeman]

Well my 5 acre vineyard will start producing next year.

I was meaning I'd be doing a whole bunch of 'garbage can' like fermenting.

I don't know how much 5 acres will produce but I'm trying to gather stuff now.

Definitely WAY WAY too much do to glass.


I guess another way to put it is; Help me go from home wine maker to semi-commercial (without the legal stuff) talking only about production.

 

[JohnT]

5 acres?? how many individual vines do you have???

Let's say that the standard is about 4 or 5 tons per acre. that amounts to 20 tons of grapes at least!

That will come down to about 10,000 liters of wine.

You are going to need a bigger boat!!!!

We are talking stainless steel tanks, industrial grade crusher/destemmer/press, and also an industrial grade parastaltic pump.

For 10,000 liters, forget garbage cans! you need to go with industrial fermentation tubs.

 

[grapeman]

Just keep in mind if there are two in your household the maximum you can make is 200 gallons per year (OTHERWISE 100 GALLONS). There is no semi-commercial category. You are either a licensed winery or you are illegal if making over the legal limit I mentioned. A ton of grapes will yield about 150 gallons so you will reach the limit at about less than one and a half tons. Also keep in mind that as the vineyard gets into full production you will get about 4 tons per acre (give or take some). So that will be 600 gallons per acre or 3000 gallons on five acres. You better figure on selling the grapes or get started in the permitting process.

 

[codeman]

Hmmm ok. Could you guys helo point me in the right direction?

Would FlexTanks work for a lot of this? I ask because they're significantly cheaper than SS.

 

[grapeman]

Hmmm ok. Could you guys helo point me in the right direction?

Would FlexTanks work for a lot of this? I ask because they're significantly cheaper than SS.

What direction do you plan on going? License? Selling grapes or just want equipment ideas?

Flextanks are cheaper to get going.

 

[codeman]

Eventually, probably 3 years, I will get a license and sell wine.
Keeping that in mind I'd like to buy some cost effective equipment that I can also use when it's a licensed winery.

I've seen motorized destemmers for $850.


I'll make near my legal 'home wine making' limit. The rest of the raw grapes I will sell until I get through the permit process.