Second wine

[distancerunner]

For those of you who have made second wines, is there a good reason to bulk for a year? Will the second wine benefit from longer storage?

Do you decide by taste? Or do you use different criteria?

Once in the bottle, how long before pulling the first cork?

 

[salcoco]

all done by taste I would wait at least 6 months

 

[distancerunner]

Thank you.

Six months makes sense. I've let them go as long a year. At that point I've felt like I missed it.

If I read you correctly, sometime between 180 and 360 days, when the taste is right bottle. Which makes sense.

But it's a little bit like playing chicken.

Maybe when the taste is right should be, when it tastes good enough?

 

[winemaker81]

For me, it's all by taste. Lighter ones have been drinkable in 4 months, others aged a year.

 

[distancerunner]

That's the "playing chicken" part of the equation. Maybe another month and it will be better. When it isn't, or changes in the wrong direction, maybe another month will help.

Impossible to know without another decade of experience?

Probably should quit when we like what we have.

 

[winemaker81]

Bulk aging is simply the time between fermentation and bottling, and the wine continues to age in the bottle. There is evidence the wine ages faster in smaller quantities, although bulk aging helps with consistency, so there is a trade-off. My decision to bottle is based upon need for containers and when I expect to start drinking the wine.

 

[winemaker81]

I'm down to just a few bottles left of a WE LE18 Corazon kit, which I bottled (more-or-less) on kit schedule. I'll never do that again.

Interestingly enough, I've never encountered this level of bottle inconsistency prior to this batch. A few weeks ago, a bottle of this batch had a strong enough KWT that I used most of it for cooking. The bottle I opened last night was great, enough that I'd be sorry to have only a few bottles left IF the batch wasn't so inconsistent. For most reds, longer bulk aging (6 to 12 months) is better.

2nd run wines are a slightly different animal.

Most of the guys that taught me made a 2nd run. One guy made a 3rd run -- a while back @sour_grapes spoke of producing a "wine-like substance" with regard to a 2nd run; this "wine" wasn't even that good -- just alcohol and food coloring.

Some guys started drinking their 2nd run after the 4th month. It was essentially jug wine -- it wasn't bad, but was also not exceptional in any way. When that was gone, they'd start on the 1st run, and when that was gone they'd start on the following year's 2nd run. It was a steady cycle, year after year.

OTOH, one guy (Vinny), taught me very positive lessons. He was the first teacher I had that was scientific about his method. His 2nd run was robust and he barrel aged all reds, 1st and 2nd, for 2 years. He had two 50 or 60 gallons barrels for 1st and another for the 2nd. His process was different -- he took the free run 1st run, put it in barrel. Then he started the 2nd run, and took the free run from that and put it in barrel. THEN he pressed the pomace and divided the "squeezin's" between the 3 barrels. I tasted 15+ yo wines that were all great!

Regarding making 2nd run, the robustness will depend on the grapes, how hard you press the pomace for the 1st run, and the ratio of water-to-pomace when making the 2nd run. I've been experimenting the past few years -- in 2019 I pressed the 1st run lightly and the 2nd run produced a lighter bodied but tasty wine. Folks tasting it don't know it's a 2nd run.

In 2020 I pressed harder (basket press, no way to measure how hard I press), and reduced the amount made -- I had pomace for 20 gallons, but added 15 (plus sugar and other components), and interestingly enough, got 20 gallons of finished wine from it. There's a lot of wine left in the pomace.

The standard recipe is 1 gallon of water for each 2 gallons of 1st run wine -- for 2021 I'm going to do a 1:4 ratio to make a heavier 2nd run. I have 20 gallons not yet bottled from 2020 and at least 3 cases left from 2019, so I'm making less of what will hopefully be a more robust wine. At roughly $0.40 per bottle, 2nd run is great for many things.