WineXpert Sediment, clarifying & degassing.

[Elmer]

Good thing I decided to re-read the directions this afternoon.
Doing a selection Pinot noir, an SG is at .992 I was all set to rack and add K-meta and clarifier. Then I read the directions which call for NOT racking and instead stirring up the sediment and adding the clarifying agent and kmeta etc...
The directions say with out the sediment the wine may not clear properly.
The issue I have is prior to stirring I have a good deal I sediment.
I can imagine that after clarifying I am going to have more sediment, which might bring my volume down to 5 gallon.
I also have more sediment. Because I sucked it up a lot of lees and goop when I racked from primary.
I am all for following the directions, I have just never heard of re suspending sediment.
Has anyone ever racked off then clarified?
How much volume loss is there when clarifying and following directions?

 

[jamesngalveston]

elmer...i dont do kits, but it does not make sense to have a sediment that you can rack off, then stir it back into the wine and add a clarifirer..
to me , this is just stupid.
if your trying to clear a wine, why, stir the sediment up..makes no sense.
i would rack it off, the add a clarifier.
not advising, just saying.

 

[bkisel]

I've done 8 kits this year and all but one have been RJS kits which have you rack off the lees. The one MM kit I did HAD INSTRUCTIONS SAME AS YOURS. The wine (White Zinfandel) came out just fine. I say follow the directions.

 

[knockabout]

My understanding is their clarifies work on pis/neg charges you need the sediment to contribute one half of the equation. I'm nota scientist but I read a lot on the forum- I am totally hooked! Sorry I can't provide a particular link but I think you may find it if you do a search on the forum.

 

[richmke]

Here is the theory I heard: The bentonite you added at the beginning is a negative ion. The clarifier (Chitosan or Isinglass) is a positive ion. You need to stir up the sediment to get the bentonite back into suspension to help the chitosan/isinglass settle out with whatever it picked up along the way. Note: Same theory as the Superkleer pack.

In the future (except with short kits like island mist), I will skip the bentonite and clarifier. Do not degass. Let the bulk aging and periodic rackings take care of clearing and degassing.

Skip the clarifiers because they take stuff out with them, and skip the degass because it gives the wine some protection from oxidation during bulk aging.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I have done the whole resuspension process on WE kits before, and I did not have any issue. Their clarification process relies on the bentonite, but other kit manufacturers will make use of other clarifiers (like chitosan/kieselsol).

For the record, bentonite is used not just for clarification purposes (it's really good at removing proteins) but also is a circulation aid for the yeast during fermentation. It does have a net negative charge like Kieselsol. Chitosan has a net positive charge.

 

[richmke]

> circulation aid for the yeast

Nucleation site for bubble to form, rise to top, sink back to bottom - is that how it helps to circulate the yeast?

 

[Putterrr]

I always rack and then stabilize/clear. I have never had a problem with my WE kits, red or white, clearing. Works for me.

cheers

 

[Enologo]

+1 On all the WE kits I've done they have you redistribute the sediment but it seem to work, clears pretty well shortly afterward. Of course YMMV.

 

[Elmer]

Added kmeta, sorbate stirred everything up. Then added clarifier (chitisol), and then degassed for close to 20 min with AIO pump.

It was amazing to watch all the goop swirl about and bubbles rise.
It was hypnotic, reminded me of the gel screen that used be behind the almans bros or Grateful Dead!

 

[cimbaliw]

It seems like every other WE kit I forget to stir the sediment back in. I think it's just too tempting not to pull the lees off as a part of vacuum racking as a way to degas. Either way the wine clears in about the same amount of time.

 

[SouthernChemist]

It was amazing to watch all the goop swirl about and bubbles rise. It was hypnotic...

Ah, the making of a future mad scientist...

 

[richmke]

I just racked a wine from Primary to Carboy. That is step 2 in the WE instructions. It is not until step 3, 10 days after the first racking, that you stir up the sediment, stabilize, and add the clarifying agent. Most of the sediment was taken away at the first racking (about 3 cups). In a few weeks, I'll see how much sediment was left (or newly generated) that is stirred back into suspension.

 

[Elmer]

I just racked a wine from Primary to Carboy. That is step 2 in the WE instructions. It is not until step 3, 10 days after the first racking, that you stir up the sediment, stabilize, and add the clarifying agent. Most of the sediment was taken away at the first racking (about 3 cups). In a few weeks, I'll see how much sediment was left (or newly generated) that is stirred back into suspension.

I had a complete brain fart and racked everything up. Goop, lees and all!

Once I had racked everything settled, and there was a lot of sediment.
I just went with it and stirred it all up and hit it with the clarifyer.

Of course with all the sediment I am pretty sure I am going to lose quite a bit of volume.
Which after I thought about it does not bother me, I will just use a bunch of my wife's beloved Mark West to top up with.

 

[Elmer]

I have waited the 8 days according to the directions, after adding the chitosan.
The wine was kept between 72 and 74 degrees. As advised by the women at Winexpert. To maintain the temp the carboy was wrapped in heavy blankets with a brew belt.
After 8 days the wine was nowhere close to clear.
Since I am going out I town for a few days I racked off the sediment.
Topped up and re wrapped in blankets and re apples the brew belt.
I was Leary of the directions indicating the wine would be clear after 8 das, but WineXpert assured me that at the right temp it would clear. That I would be able to shine a flash right thru it. I can not. It is visibly cloudy!
I am disappointed that it is not clear.
And I guess will let time take over.

 

[wineh]

Everything will be fine

In stage 4 of the instructions you first read "After 8 days, your wine will be quite clear." While this is usually the case, I have inserted the word "not" between "be" and "quite" so I don't panic. Its really the next 2 weeks (4 in the case of Eclipse) that it will truly become clear. Even in step 3 of stage 4, the instruction advises: "If it is not completely clear, leave for another 7 days. Do not bottle cloudy wine: it will not clear in the bottle."
In addition, not seeing your flashlight through the carboy is not a perfect indicator that the wine has not cleared. While I would not expect it from a pinot, some of my Winexpert kits are so dark, it is never possible to see my 60W trouble light through them (eg, Stag's Leap Merlot, Lodi Ranch Cab, Italian Brunello), and I have to take a sample to view separately.
At the end of the 14 days (or 28) I usually rack and leave another 4 weeks to get all the sediment on the bottom, and I never filter.

 

[Elmer]

In stage 4 of the instructions you first read "After 8 days, your wine will be quite clear." While this is usually the case, I have inserted the word "not" between "be" and "quite" so I don't panic. Its really the next 2 weeks (4 in the case of Eclipse) that it will truly become clear. Even in step 3 of stage 4, the instruction advises: "If it is not completely clear, leave for another 7 days. Do not bottle cloudy wine: it will not clear in the bottle."
In addition, not seeing your flashlight through the carboy is not a perfect indicator that the wine has not cleared. While I would not expect it from a pinot, some of my Winexpert kits are so dark, it is never possible to see my 60W trouble light through them (eg, Stag's Leap Merlot, Lodi Ranch Cab, Italian Brunello), and I have to take a sample to view separately.
At the end of the 14 days (or 28) I usually rack and leave another 4 weeks to get all the sediment on the bottom, and I never filter.

I have been keeping the carboy around 70 degrees with uise of the brew belt and blankets, because the women at WineXpert told me to keep it at this temp to clear.
Then over the weekend I started to think, if I have used my cold garage to clear wine, why not just let it go spend a few weeks out there.

maybe it is the chitosan that needs the warmth to fully work. I dont know.
But I am getting very leary of having my brew belt running for this amount of time (althought I unplug it every few days for a slight amount of time)

 

[wineh]

Elmer,
I put the brewbelt on the primary, and leave it on the carboy until racking off the sediment (day 8 after stabilizing), and I've never had a problem. The brewbelt is only 20 watts, and is thermostatically controlled. Having said that, my brewing area is about 65 degrees so I don't have to wrap in blankets, which probably is the part making you uncomfortable. Just one more question about your clarification: Are you sure you got all the CO2 out? Residual CO2 can interfere with clarification.

 

[Elmer]

Elmer,
I put the brewbelt on the primary, and leave it on the carboy until racking off the sediment (day 8 after stabilizing), and I've never had a problem. The brewbelt is only 20 watts, and is thermostatically controlled. Having said that, my brewing area is about 65 degrees so I don't have to wrap in blankets, which probably is the part making you uncomfortable. Just one more question about your clarification: Are you sure you got all the CO2 out? Residual CO2 can interfere with clarification.

My basement is about 62 degrees F.
I had the belt and blankets on because the WineXpert women was adamant that thier kits are manufactured to clear only during the 8 day period when at 70 degrees or above.

I find that the brew belt along only raises the carboy a degree or 2, since the room itself is cold. When I wrap in a blanket I can get it up to atleast 70.
(please note I only wrap the mid section of the carboy and no blankets are on the brew belt).

I believe I had all CO2 out. When I racked, I went back and forth between 2 carboys 1/2 dozen times.
After that I used the AIO to see if there were any bubbles to be pulled out of the wine, it pulled nothing.

I am most likely going to go off directions.
Unwrap the blankets top up completely and let the wine cool down to 62 degrees and let it bulk age and clear until summer!

 

[cmason1957]

My basement is about 62 degrees F.
I had the belt and blankets on because the WineXpert women was adamant that thier kits are manufactured to clear only during the 8 day period when at 70 degrees or above.

I find that the brew belt along only raises the carboy a degree or 2, since the room itself is cold. When I wrap in a blanket I can get it up to atleast 70.
(please note I only wrap the mid section of the carboy and no blankets are on the brew belt).

I believe I had all CO2 out. When I racked, I went back and forth between 2 carboys 1/2 dozen times.
After that I used the AIO to see if there were any bubbles to be pulled out of the wine, it pulled nothing.

I am most likely going to go off directions.
Unwrap the blankets top up completely and let the wine cool down to 62 degrees and let it bulk age and clear until summer!

And I will tell you for a stone cold fact that kits will clear just fine at a much lower temp than that. I just bottled a Winexpert Sauv Blanc that I had done completely in my basement. It never gets above 62 down there after October. I never use heating belts, ever and I have a pear going down there right now. Quite happily.

Just my $0.02.