RJ Spagnols Sediment in bottle

[jsiddall]

My first kit made at home (vs. on-prem) was a RJS Cabernet Franc Icewine style. I followed the directions with two exceptions. First, I inadvertantly left about 400 ml of k-meta solution in the carboy at the first racking This resulted in slight dilution of the must (perhaps 2%) and also added significantly more k-meta (just under a tsp. or roughly double) than called for. I don't think either of these issues should affect the outcome. Second, I left out the optional steps which were an additional racking and filtering. I bottled per the instructions at the beginning of January.

The problem is that now there is a small amount of sediment in all the bottles:



Since the lees were still in the bottom of the carboy at bottling it is possible some were stirred up by the syphoning and ended up in the bottles, though I would have expected the bottles to be visibly cloudy if that had happened. I took a picture at bottling and it looks pretty clear:



So that leaves the possibliity of renewed fermentation in the bottle. The instructions do mention that could happen if filtering isn't performed, but from everything I have read even the finest 0.5 micron filters won't remove all the yeast, so it seemed somewhat pointless. I also added the complete Sorbate pack as directed, which I thought should arrest further fermentation. So far no corks are pushing out but I used #9s so they are pretty tight and may not be a good indicator.

If more fermentation did happen what can I do about it? I tried a bottle on the weekend and it tasted pretty good but I don't want it to degrade, or continue to ferment, over time. Will leaving the sediment in the bottle hurt the long term quality or will they eventually explode? If so is it worth un-capping and un-corking the whole batch, filtering with a fine filter, and re-bottling? Anything else that can be done?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[DoctorCAD]

Leave it. Nothing to worry about now except presentation.

Now you know why they have the extra racking and fining steps in the directions, and what happens if you don't follow them.

 

[jsiddall]

Leave it. Nothing to worry about now except presentation.

Now you know why they have the extra racking and fining steps in the directions, and what happens if you don't follow them.

Thanks, I'll just leave it then.

Do you think removing most of the yeast with something like a Mini Jet would have prevented this, or would enough yeast have remained to still cause some fermentation/sediment? Perhaps the posts I read were overly pessimistic but the consensus seemed to be that home filtering wouldn't likely be a guarantee against further fermentation.

 

[cpfan]

jsiddall:

Personally I do not think that you have fementation occurring in the bottles. I think it's just stirred up sediment when bottling.

When you drank a bottle was there carbonation in the wine?

Steve

 

[wineforfun]

jsiddall:
Personally I do not think that you have fementation occurring in the bottles. I think it's just stirred up sediment when bottling.

Agree with the above. You should have racked off those lees, let sit for a week or two and if there were no more lees, then bottle it. I think you jumped the gun.

 

[bkisel]

Similar happened with my first kit, an RJS VdV Pinot Noir. After talking with RJS CS the wine was poured back into a carboy. Think they had me add some k-meta. Think it was a couple of weeks then racked to a bucket and bottled from the bucket. No sediment in the bottles second time around. The wine itself turned out just fine in the end.

 

[jsiddall]

jsiddall:

Personally I do not think that you have fementation occurring in the bottles. I think it's just stirred up sediment when bottling.

When you drank a bottle was there carbonation in the wine?

I didn't notice any carbonation when drinking it but there was a slight hiss when I removed the cork.

Agree with the above. You should have racked off those lees, let sit for a week or two and if there were no more lees, then bottle it. I think you jumped the gun.

Similar happened with my first kit, an RJS VdV Pinot Noir. After talking with RJS CS the wine was poured back into a carboy. Think they had me add some k-meta. Think it was a couple of weeks then racked to a bucket and bottled from the bucket. No sediment in the bottles second time around. The wine itself turned out just fine in the end.

I checked the instructions again. Since I don't have a filter I just skipped that step entirely but what I hadn't considered until now is that the filtering step was also effectively acting as an additional racking step since no sediment would have made it to the final carboy. Instead of skipping the filtering entirely I should have replaced that step with a rack/wait step, then bottled later. I won't make that mistake again!

However, all that being said, I don't think that was actually the problem. To prove it I ran a simple test by taking a bottle, swirling it around a bit to mix in the sediment, then taking another picture. Compare it to the day of bottling from above and it isn't at all the same. The day of bottling is crystal clear. I would have noticed this level of cloudiness right away:



I can't see how that is anything other than restarted fermentation in the bottle. Given that evidence, is there anything else that can/should be done?

 

[wineforfun]

All I can go by is when I bottled my first Dragon Blood, it was crystal clear, similar to your first picture. After a week or two, I could see swirls of sediment(didn't know what it was at the time). I am not sure, but maybe it takes time for the sediment to "mate back up".
Either way, I would add that extra rack step in next time. I never bottle off of lees/sediment.

 

[GreginND]

There are many reasons you will see sediments dropping. Proteins aggregating for example. The best thing to do is wait longer before bottling - even 4-6 months or longer. And rack a couple of times during that aging as you see sediments coming out. Bentonite fining will help with protein stabilization also. Did the kit include bentonite?

 

[heatherd]

Nothing you can do now, but definitely rack immediately prior to bottling next time! I have had that happen on a batch of Moscato that I bottled too early because I was rushing things a bit. If a kit says it's ready in four weeks, it still benefits from extra time and patience, although it is tough to wait.
Heather

 

[jsiddall]

All I can go by is when I bottled my first Dragon Blood, it was crystal clear, similar to your first picture. After a week or two, I could see swirls of sediment(didn't know what it was at the time). I am not sure, but maybe it takes time for the sediment to "mate back up".
Either way, I would add that extra rack step in next time. I never bottle off of lees/sediment.

Strange for sure that it would start clear and then get cloudier over time!

There are many reasons you will see sediments dropping. Proteins aggregating for example. The best thing to do is wait longer before bottling - even 4-6 months or longer. And rack a couple of times during that aging as you see sediments coming out. Bentonite fining will help with protein stabilization also. Did the kit include bentonite?

Yes, used Bentonite, Kieselsol and Chitosan exactly per the directions.

Nothing you can do now, but definitely rack immediately prior to bottling next time! I have had that happen on a batch of Moscato that I bottled too early because I was rushing things a bit. If a kit says it's ready in four weeks, it still benefits from extra time and patience, although it is tough to wait.
Heather

I followed the kit timing exactly (bottled on day 42). The instructions cautioned against bottling cloudy wine but it was crystal clear so I wasn't worried. I guess this is a case where not following the kit instructions is a good thing!

I am thinking that when I want to serving I may try standing the bottle upright in advance and then syphoning the contents out of the bottle being careful not to agitate. Not unlike racking out of the bottle!

Thanks for all the comments. Lessons learned: rack often, wait longer than the instructions say to bottle.

 

[Boatboy24]

If you don't have any carbonation in your wine, and aren't blowing corks, you aren't re-fermenting. If you were, the yeast would be producing carbon dioxide, creating pressure in the bottle. I think you are most likely seeing proteins, as Greg indicated. I bottled a Chardonnay last summer and had the same thing happen, even though I had filtered. I used a 5 micron filter, and ideally should have used 1 micron, but I had a red to filter that day and didn't want to go to 1 micron. Regardless, the wine was crystal clear when I bottled, but had very fine sediment a few weeks later. Time is your friend.

 

[DoctorCAD]

One thing to keep in mind about filtering. The wine MUST BE CLEAR before filtering. All normal filtering is supposed to do is polish a finished wine. Now, if you had access to a sterile filter, that would remove yeast cells.