WineXpert Selection Estate Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon

[wineh]

I just bottled a batch of this kit last month and I didn't have any oak for secondary fermentation. Is this a change or did I miss something?

My records show 60gr of toasted oak, (dust) and 60 gr of French oak (chips). both of those are intended to go in the primary. The WE kits with grapeskins additionally include oak cubes which are intended to go in the carboy. I think Geronimo just took a slightly different tack, which likely worked out well.

 

[Geronimo]

My records show 60gr of toasted oak, (dust) and 60 gr of French oak (chips). both of those are intended to go in the primary. The WE kits with grapeskins additionally include oak cubes which are intended to go in the carboy. I think Geronimo just took a slightly different tack, which likely worked out well.

That's correct, I never use the dust in secondary and I prefer to spread the oak out between primary and secondary.

 

[zeus50]

how is it going now? mine is in 2ndary.... can't wait

 

[Andy419]

Hi Geronimo,

I just bought this kit yesterday -- can I ask you about the yeast? I was suprised, and happy, to see that the yeast is RC212 instead of 1118 that I have found in the other kits. However, I've had problems with 212 in the past and have been told on this forum that you need to have a lot of Nitrogen for 212 -- so you should add some nutrient in the beginning. Did you do anything differently than is on the directions, or did you just sprinkle the yeast on top as is indicated?

THANKS,

Andy

 

[robie]

Hi Geronimo,

I just bought this kit yesterday -- can I ask you about the yeast? I was suprised, and happy, to see that the yeast is RC212 instead of 1118 that I have found in the other kits. However, I've had problems with 212 in the past and have been told on this forum that you need to have a lot of Nitrogen for 212 -- so you should add some nutrient in the beginning. Did you do anything differently than is on the directions, or did you just sprinkle the yeast on top as is indicated?

THANKS,

Andy

Hi Andy,

Until G. gets back to you, I'll add my own comments.

If the kit came with that particular yeast, it is safe to say the kit maker has added the correct amounts of nutrients and such that are required. If they hadn't have, you can also assume they would have provided a nutrient packet with instructions as to when to add it.

This wine should be pretty complete as is. However, based on one's own taste, some may consider adding some additional oak during aging or if they don't care much for oak, they might leave out some of the supplied oak. It's all a matter of personal preference.

You can sprinkle the yeast or use a starter, either way should be fine for this kit.

Let this wine age out properly and you won't be disappointed. After all, it deserves the chance to grow up.

Good luck.

 

[Andy419]

Thanks Robie!

 

[robie]

Thanks Robie!

But isn't it fun!!!!!!!

 

[Geronimo]

Hi Geronimo,

I just bought this kit yesterday -- can I ask you about the yeast? I was suprised, and happy, to see that the yeast is RC212 instead of 1118 that I have found in the other kits. However, I've had problems with 212 in the past and have been told on this forum that you need to have a lot of Nitrogen for 212 -- so you should add some nutrient in the beginning. Did you do anything differently than is on the directions, or did you just sprinkle the yeast on top as is indicated?

I have used some nutrient in the past, but as Robie says I don't think it's needed. I just sprinkle the yeast, stir gently and wait for activity. I used some Wyeast nutrient with mine on the 2nd kit, but nothing on the first. I didn't notice any difference.

RC212 will leave you a bit more color than EC1118 but that's extremely subjective. Since this is one of WE's top shelf kits, they want to take every effort to make the wine as good as it can be.

 

[Andy419]

Thanks again everyone! I'm not going to start this until some time next week (maybe) -- I'll le t you know how I do.

 

[wood1954]

I started this kit about a month ago and it came with Premier cuvee yeast. I don't think they put any thought into yeast selection at all. What ever is handy that day is what goes into the kit. If kits are not as full bodied as commercial wine, why not send them out with a yeast that adds more poly saccharides or glycerol? BTW when i tasted while i was racking it , it was really good, i used Lalvin D47. On my Zin-Shiraz blend i used Lalvin d254 and it is going to be the best wine I've made and it's only a month old.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I started this kit about a month ago and it came with Premier cuvee yeast. I don't think they put any thought into yeast selection at all. What ever is handy that day is what goes into the kit. If kits are not as full bodied as commercial wine, why not send them out with a yeast that adds more poly saccharides or glycerol? BTW when i tasted while i was racking it , it was really good, i used Lalvin D47. On my Zin-Shiraz blend i used Lalvin d254 and it is going to be the best wine I've made and it's only a month old.

I'm pretty sure I've read on more than one occasion that (for Winexpert, at least) they do test variations of yeast when developing a kit. Sometimes you do see kits with something other than EC-1118. Above all, though, I think the kit companies look for consistency and reliability. Yes, certain yeast strains would give improved flavor for a white wine or better extraction of color or more body for a red wine, but some of those yeast strains can be very needy as far as nutrients, alcohol tolerance, rate of fermentation, and temperature are concerned. That's why EC-1118 (or variations) are widely found in kits. It has high alcohol tolerance, does not produce much hydrogen sulfide, does not have high nutrient requirements, and works more consistently despite any other mistakes that people may make in setting up the fermentation. An experienced winemaker or something who has the time and patience can figure out how to take advantage of those yeast strains. Some yeast strains just do not work as well with a kit must as they would with fresh grape must, and I think that has to do with what the kit making process does to the sugars.

A Zinfandel-Shiraz blend sounds pretty interesting. What's the ratio of the two?

 

[wood1954]

good reply to my point. thanks. the ratio of the blend isn't stated anywhere on the kit box.

 

[zeroclient]

This is my 6th WinExpert kit to date and all have been great - including this one - but I have a question on the taste. Been in the bottles aging for only about a month after 11 weeks of work. I followed the directions to the tee.

For sanity, I clean-wash everything with a solution of CBrite, rinse, and finalize with SanStar.

One thing I noticed about the kit is straight out of the box it had a slightly different scent of smell. The kit I ordered came from an online co which shipped via Fedex to my door. Conditions werent probably the best as the kit arrived and was pretty warm from the shipment - maybe 90 degrees or so. I left it sir for a day to get at room temperature. Brew day; a small juice sample tasted of complex grapes but also with a slightly different smell in the juice. I wish I could describe the smell straight out the box, only I thought it smelled a tiny bit like a yeast. At the time I figured it may have been natural yeast from the grapes so i didnt worry about it.

Firmentation went fine. My firmentation closet sat at about 74 degrees - summertime. Wine sampling throughout the process yielded very good results. A month later and a few days before bottling I took a sample, and noted the tasting was amazingly laced with mild bacon fats. Not over-powering or anything, I actually loved the different flavoring. Not really knowing good or bad, I bottled the next week.

My bottling friend took one bottle home with him. 2 weeks later he said the wine tasted different-but-good. He couldnt pin the flavor until I mentioned my previous sample tasted like Bacon Fat. It clicked for him and he aggreed on the flavor, then said the wine was actually "pretty good". Hes had a lot of store-bought wines but never much from home-brew. He said this wine tasted differently from many other cabs hes had. I advised the wine should have been kept for months before tasting

I'm anxious this weekend to try the first bottle under right conditions, but wonder if the mild flavor of bacon fat is to be expected from this kit?

 

[Geronimo]

It sounds like "kit taste" mixed with diacetyl. Kit taste is usually described as cardboard and/or metallic while diacetyl is usually described as buttery. IMO Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon has a considerable measure of kit taste.

What I've learned from wine making (and many years of beer brewing) is NEVER to rush the primary. Let it sit for 2-3 weeks. I know the instructions typically say a mush shorter time frame, and you might get some interesting character from some of the esters produced by fermentation.... but you might also regret it. Let the yeast complete their job, and never move to secondary until your hydrometer tells you it's ready.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl

Kit taste will only diminish in time.

 

[wookey]

Geronimo,

Can you elaborate your idea o sitting in the primary for longer. Do you mean you ferment it to dry in primary and then transfer to secondary just to clear?

Wookey

 

[Geronimo]

Yes - secondary for me is to bulk age, degas, add oak and clarify. It often drops 2-4 more points as well.

I like to go 3 weeks in primary, then 3+ weeks in secondary... I find that 3-6 months in the bottle gets the wine about 95-98% of where I imagine it should peak.

 

[wood1954]

When a friend told me that a bottle i gave her tasted or smelled like bacon i didn't believe it until i did some research on it. do a google search on Brettanomyces. i think you'll find an answer there.

 

[Geronimo]

Brettanomyces smells of cow **** frankly. "Tastes like bacon" and "smells like bacon" would be very different flaws for sure.

Check out this link, and scroll down about a third of the page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault

 

[Brian]

Well I bought this kit and I have also ordered some grape skin packs to use with it so I am hoping that this wine will be outstanding. I believe it will be.

 

[zeus50]

any updates on this one? i have mine bulk aging, will probably rack this weekend or early next week.