Siphon Pump

[Winejug]

Hello, new to the forum but not so new to winemaking. Started BK (before kids) in the 1970s and just restarted making dry wine from New York Finger Lakes area grape juices (white only). Siphoning during racking has always been a challenge. We used to manually start siphons - yes by sucking on the tube till it started. Then I found a manual siphon pump tube contraption which was very effective blowing lots of air into the carboy but eventually starting. Better, but less than ideal. Finally I bought a one gallon/minute wine/beer siphon pump from Northern Brewer; mounted it on the wall and gave it a try. It worked a few times and I really liked it but it quickly began pouring out tiny air bubbles from the output line. Input line was perfectly clear and bubble free. I tried repositioning the pump and tightening the lines - no improvement. I texted Northern Brewer and they promptly offered to send me a new pump, saying maybe the diaphragm was bad. Great customer service. Pump arrived and it worked for one 6 gallon carboy then pumped very excessive tiny air bubbles - almost like total froth. I again tried repositioning, changing height, tightening lines, etc - no improvement. So I have two questions: first, is it the pump and if so is there a better one out there to make siphoning easier? I make about 40 gallons of wine annually and a pump would be a welcome addition. Or second, should I just revert to the old fashioned manual siphoning? What do most 40 gallon/yr wine makers do? Thanks

 

[Rocky]

You need to get an auto siphon. Works great for the volume you are making.

Fermtech Auto-Siphon 1/2", Brand: Fermtech (labelpeelers.com)

 

[hounddawg]

Hello, new to the forum but not so new to winemaking. Started BK (before kids) in the 1970s and just restarted making dry wine from New York Finger Lakes area grape juices (white only). Siphoning during racking has always been a challenge. We used to manually start siphons - yes by sucking on the tube till it started. Then I found a manual siphon pump tube contraption which was very effective blowing lots of air into the carboy but eventually starting. Better, but less than ideal. Finally I bought a one gallon/minute wine/beer siphon pump from Northern Brewer; mounted it on the wall and gave it a try. It worked a few times and I really liked it but it quickly began pouring out tiny air bubbles from the output line. Input line was perfectly clear and bubble free. I tried repositioning the pump and tightening the lines - no improvement. I texted Northern Brewer and they promptly offered to send me a new pump, saying maybe the diaphragm was bad. Great customer service. Pump arrived and it worked for one 6 gallon carboy then pumped very excessive tiny air bubbles - almost like total froth. I again tried repositioning, changing height, tightening lines, etc - no improvement. So I have two questions: first, is it the pump and if so is there a better one out there to make siphoning easier? I make about 40 gallons of wine annually and a pump would be a welcome addition. Or second, should I just revert to the old fashioned manual siphoning? What do most 40 gallon/yr wine makers do? Thanks

as rocky said a auto siphon, or you could look into @vacuumpumpman has a vacuum pump, that allows to rack, filter and bottle under vacuum, which also under vacuum your degassing at the same time,,,
Dawg

 

[CDrew]

I make about 75 gallons per year, so near the same volume, and typically use vacuum to transfer wine from one vessel to another. It works extremely well, prevents some small amount of air exposure, and helps to remove CO2 at the same time. You can also move wine uphill, so it's great if you don't like lifting your wine storage to enable a siphon.

You can get a good kit from Wine Pump | All in One Wine Pump and Steve the owner is a forum member. It's a very helpful vacuum pump device and Steve supplies all the tubing, stoppers and vacuum accessories that you need. I highly recommend you start with this, and that you buy the bottling accessory that goes with it.

You can also build your own once you understand how it works,but by the time you buy a good vacuum pump, the tubing, and the variety of silicone stoppers you need, you'd be better off buying the allinone. I got a free Hospital Vacuum aspirator pump (rated for continuous duty) and use that when I'm doing a lot of volume at once, although I did about 70 gallons at once with the allinone and it handled it just fine.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[sour_grapes]

Hello, new to the forum but not so new to winemaking. Started BK (before kids) in the 1970s and just restarted making dry wine from New York Finger Lakes area grape juices (white only). Siphoning during racking has always been a challenge. We used to manually start siphons - yes by sucking on the tube till it started. Then I found a manual siphon pump tube contraption which was very effective blowing lots of air into the carboy but eventually starting. Better, but less than ideal. Finally I bought a one gallon/minute wine/beer siphon pump from Northern Brewer; mounted it on the wall and gave it a try. It worked a few times and I really liked it but it quickly began pouring out tiny air bubbles from the output line. Input line was perfectly clear and bubble free. I tried repositioning the pump and tightening the lines - no improvement. I texted Northern Brewer and they promptly offered to send me a new pump, saying maybe the diaphragm was bad. Great customer service. Pump arrived and it worked for one 6 gallon carboy then pumped very excessive tiny air bubbles - almost like total froth. I again tried repositioning, changing height, tightening lines, etc - no improvement. So I have two questions: first, is it the pump and if so is there a better one out there to make siphoning easier? I make about 40 gallons of wine annually and a pump would be a welcome addition. Or second, should I just revert to the old fashioned manual siphoning? What do most 40 gallon/yr wine makers do? Thanks

Welcome to WMT!

I looked up the Northern Brewer pump you asked about. Note that the wine actually goes through that pump. (In contrast, for the vacuum pump solutions that the others referred to, the wine never touches the pump.) So my guess is that your wine had plenty of dissolved CO2, and when you pumped it with the diaphragm pump, it caused it to come out of solution (like if you were to whisk a soda or a beer).

 

[stickman]

I'm assumming you are talking about the 1gal/min diaphragm pump that Northern Brewer sells. The bubbles that appear on the discharge of the pump are probably just CO2 comming out of solution, if so it's completely normal, usually this is common to see during the first few rackings.

 

[Rice_Guy]

FYI, commercial wineries use pumps which have a side effect of degassing the wine. Sour is probably correct. A new pump with sealed tubing from first to second would not “suck” air into the system.

Welcome to WMT!

I looked up the Northern Brewer pump you asked about. Note that the wine actually goes through that pump. (In contrast, for the vacuum pump solutions that the others referred to, the wine never touches the pump.) So my guess is that your wine had plenty of dissolved CO2, and when you pumped it with the diaphragm pump, it caused it to come out of solution (like if you were to whisk a soda or a beer).

If I wanted to test the theory degas a carboy as by letting a vacuum cleaner suck on it two minutes every fifteen minutes and then retest the pump. ,,,, we had a thread with VacuVin last week with photos of set ups.
and WELCOME TO WMT

 

[sour_grapes]

If I wanted to test the theory degas a carboy as by letting a vacuum cleaner suck on it two minutes every fifteen minutes and then retest the pump.

And another way to test the theory would be to use the pump to transfer plain tap water, and look for bubbles.

 

[VinesnBines]

I have the Northern Brewer Pump and have used it during the last six weeks for many (hundreds) gallons of water, PBW, Star San, wine and beer. It did lose it's prime once but I've never had a problem like you described. I also pumped wine fresh from primary. One trick I learned was to add a racking cane to the output hose. Otherwise, the hose has a tendency to pop out of the carboy/keg. Fortunately, I only ended up with some Start San in the floor. I keep the pump at the level or below the level of the bucket or carboy. When it lost the prime it really was pumping froth until the prime was gone. I had to old school the prime by sucking on the output hose with water in the lines. I don't let the lines dry out, lest it lose the prime.

 

[Winejug]

Several excellent comments above. Thanks to all for jumping into the discussion. This gives me a couple very good options to consider. I understand from Stickman that it might not be air at all, but rather CO2. And I did actually try Sour Grapes idea of pumping plain water through the pump and there were no bubbles, pointing to the CO2 idea. Thanks again everyone.