Slimed elderberry must

[Norton]

I harvested my first batch of elderberry last summer, froze them and started making wine this winter. I used 14 pounds of berries, pored hot water over them after putting them in a bag, added oak powder and chips, and enough sugar to get it up to about 1.085.
After 7 days the must was thick, almost oily in texture. I racked thinking sediment would drop and that would fix it. About two weeks later I sampled and it still has a slimy feel to it.
First any idea as to what I did wrong? And any suggestions as to how to fix it. I did make a second pressing that is about 1/3 of the original that seems fine that I can use to blend and I only used half of my berries on this first batch.

 

[grapeman]

How many little green stems did you have in it? If they are present when you begin, you can get a green slimy oily goo that sticks to everything. Rackings will eventually get rid of it as it sticks to the sides of the carboys. Use some detergent to get rid of it from the carboy but be sure to rinse very well after.

 

[Julie]

How many gallons are you making? The slime is a common issue but it doesn't stay in the wine, use some vegetable oils to clean it out of your primary.

 

[grapeman]

Listen to Julie - it has been so many years since I have made it that I forgot that step. Use vegetable oil first, then the detergent to get rid of the oil and then rinse it well!

Thanks Julie!

 

[Julie]

Lol, Rich sorry but I didn't even read your response until now. I'm more concern on how many pounds per gallon!

 

[Norton]

Julie and Rich,
No green berries or stems. I added 3 gallons of water to the 14 pounds of berries. I didn't have any problem with cleaning any goo out of the bucket, it was just that when I tasted the must it has a slimy feel to it. It has been about 2 weeks since I first pitched the yeast.

 

[grapeman]

Just handle it like you do normally. The oily consistency is likely the goo we all get from it. Just leave it behind at future rackings and it should be fine. Hopefully Wvmountaineerjack will see this soon. He grows a lot of them and has made a lot of it.

 

[fivebk]

Might try adding some pectic enzyme

Bob

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Doesnt seem like its green goo, have you filtered out the fruit yet? As mentioned above a little pectinase wouldnt hurt anything. Sounds like you have a good recipe going, might just need some time. WVMJ

 

[Norton]

I did add pectin when I started, I can try adding more. I got 4 1/2 gallons out of 14 pounds of berries and about 3 gallons of water and the requisite sugar.

 

[Norton]

I put the fruit in a paint strainer bag

 

[gratus_fermentatio]

Might be a lactic bacteria infection, this is what Jack Keller has to say:

"Oiliness or Ropiness: The wine develops an oily look with rope- like threads or strings appearing within it. It pours slowly and thickly with a consistency similar to egg whites, but neither its smell nor taste are effected. The culprit is a lactic acid bacterium and is only fatal to the wine if left untreated. Pour the wine into an open container with greater volume than required. Use an egg whip to beat the wine into a frothiness. Add two crushed Campden tablets per gallon of wine and stir these in with the egg whip. Cover with a sterile cloth and stir the wine every hour or so for about four hours. Return it to a sterile secondary and fit the airlock. After two days, run the wine through a wine filter and return it to another sterile secondary. Again, this problem, like most, can be prevented by pre-treating the must with Campden and sterilizing your equipment scrupulously."

I actually had a batch of infected plum melomel once, Keller's advice worked & I was able to save the batch.
Regards, GF.

 

[Norton]

Thanks, I will try that. I was doing the fermentation a small room with a couple of other carboys that were undergoing malolactic fermentation.

 

[Norton]

Gratis, I think you are right. I wasn't able to hit it with pot meta for about two weeks after noticing the problem but that helped. Still, I would see about the bottom 20% of the bottom of the car boys with that stuff floating around and still had some of that slimy mouthfeel in the rest. So, I dosed it with SuperKleer and immediately saw that stuff drop to the bottom. Will give it a week and see if that took care of it.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Did you add any Malic? Elderberries main acid is citric and not a lot of that in the first place and a little bit of malic, might be you have something else that was cured by the same treatment? WVMJ

 

[TonyR]

Have you checked the Ta. The reason i ask is if the Ta of the wine is very low the wine will have a slimy mouth feel, the mouth feel will become crisper as the Ta becomes higher. If its sweet at all that will compound the slimy feel

 

[Norton]

WV and Tony, I think you both have valid points. Here is my notes on making the elderberry. This was my first attempt at making elderberry from fresh berries growing in my yard. We had a very wet summer also if that matters. Also, I was using a malolactic fermentation in the same room on some Norton that I had
"Frozen from last summer. 30 pounds. Need 4-5 pounds per gallon of juice
1/31/16 did 14 gallons of elderberry to 3 gal water. Boiled 1/2 gal of water and then added some bentonite. Production out of it. Needs a large 6 gallon primary container and should tie off the bag after pouring the berries and also.
Boiled 2 more gallon of water to help with pressing the berries in a bucket with a wine bottle. Probably should let the berries thaw first next time.
Added slightly less than 1/4 teaspoon peptic enzyme. Added 5 tablespoons of acid blend
To get pH level down to 3.93. Will adjust further after fermentation. If necessary.
Used Montrachet yeast.
2/6/16 racked. Sg under 1. Very thick must. Almost syrupy
Did a second press using half the water and added sugar to get 1.090. Added acid blend to get down to 3.3
3/17/16 ph 3.75"

So as you can see, the pH was high from the beginning and I used acid blend, which of course has some malic acid in it. And even now the pH level was 3.75.

 

[TonyR]

I just read the instructions for my pectin enzyme and it calls for a 1/2 tsp per gal. I wonder if you are just shy of making jelly. Fresh fruit especially if it was good and ripe, has a lot of natural pectin in it, mix that with boiling water, sugar and you have a loose jelly syrup. And the slime feel was not enough acid, acid blend will be just fine. Do you have a acid testing kit?? Just to check the Ta. I would add at least 1/2 tsp of pectin enzyme per gal and stir it in and hopefully the pectin will fall out in the secondary.

 

[Norton]

Tony,
My liquid pectin enzyme solution says 1/4 tsp per 5 goal.
I don't have a Ta test kit, but I am going to use the Ph results and lower the ph to about 3.4 and taste the results

 

[Arne]

Tony,
My liquid pectin enzyme solution says 1/4 tsp per 5 goal.
I don't have a Ta test kit, but I am going to use the Ph results and lower the ph to about 3.4 and taste the results

Think Tony was talking powdered pectic enzime. Just for a heads up, had a couple of mice get into my winemaking spot a couple of years ago. They ate into several of my ingredients. One of them was a bottle of liquid pectic enzime. For some reason they liked that stuff. Once I found out they were there, they went to mouse heaven. Darn cat, catches mice outside but let these go inside. Course, maybe there were more than those two and the cat got the rest. LOL, Arne.