WineXpert Sorbate Debate/ Spanish Rioja

[wineh]

My involvement in a discussion about Kit Taste (KT) eventually narrowed to the use of potassium sorbate as a kit additive. I googled the heck out of KT, potassium sorbate, as well as how we taste stuff in general. Apparently, only some people (not me) can taste that "bubblegum" thing caused by sorbate. In addition, there is a threshold at which no normal person will taste it, and it is related to alcohol level and pH. Simplified, if there is less than about .18g/l, people won't notice it. In addition, I deduced that for my WE SI Spanish Rioja, which typically produces about 12% alcohol, all that would be required is about 3.1g for the 23l carboy of wine. I note that WE provides 5.5g (.24g/l) of sorbate with this kit. For those with a sensitivity to the "bubblegum" thing, that would exceed the threshold, and they could taste it.
I was thinking that even though I can't define the "bubblegum" thing, what if the sorbate is adding a flavor, or taste that, even though I can't define it, is keeping my wine from being all that it could be. As luck would have it, I will be stabilizing this wine today, and I'm going to omit the sorbate. I have a couple of cases of Rioja that was bottled in January, so after this batch is done and has aged for a while, I will do a direct comparison. Even though it may take bottle after bottle to complete this comparison, I am willing to risk my liver in the name of totally inaccurate science! I should be able to report back by Christmas.

Ibglowin, thanks for making me think about my wine differently.

 

[jdeere5220]

Anything for the sake of science!

Thanks for the info by the way. Tim V. at W.E. wrote in one of his blogs ("Making Your Wine Shine") that he also suggested eliminating the sorbate. What are the risks?

 

[ibglowin]

Were all here to help each other in some way.

As long as you fermented to dry and you had normal sanitization you have no worries mate.

 

[Wade E]

I dont believe that is what the kit Taste is because Ive had a few W.E. bottles that had the KT and no sorbate was used. That being said they were not Crushendo kits nor the Selection Int. which IMO the lower the quality kit the more likely you are to taste it to an extent to where the kit is so thin it doesnt even taste like a red wine to me.

 

[ibglowin]

I had not one but two Mosti Whites that tasted great until I added the sorbate. After that, all I could taste is "funky bubble gum". That taste was there for almost 12 months then started to diminish after that. No more sorbate for me unless I back sweeten.

 

[robie]

IMO, KT is more of a chemical taste than the sorbate Bubblegum taste. I know that very young wine also can have a sort of chemical taste, but KT is different, still.

As Wade said, it seems more prevalent in the less expensive kits that have had more water removed... smaller bladder of juice to rehydrate.

I don't know, though. I do know that KT seems to go away in time.

 

[wineh]

Were all here to help each other in some way.

As long as you fermented to dry and you had normal sanitization you have no worries mate.

It got to .991, so pretty dry. I improved my sanitation regimen after I had a Liebfraumilch go South on me over a year ago.

 

[mmadmikes1]

I have noticed most people can not taste sorbate, I can. It is like the people that love hoppy beer and then some people can not stand the bitterness. All taste buds are not the same

 

[Putterrr]

So let me get his straight. You are saying that sorbate in not required to make these kit wines. What are the risks if not used?

I have recently done a couple RJS Winery series reds and they had not one but 2 packs of sorbate. Why would these kits need 2? Could it be due to the undried skins they contain.

Thx in advance

 

[ibglowin]

Its just an insurance policy for the amateur winemaker.

If you should not ferment to dry (0.998 or less) or if you should have less than good sanitization practices (using old bottles and not cleaning them out very well). If you should forget about racking the wine and bugs grow into the carboy etc., the sorbate will stop the yeast and other nasties from reproducing. If this should happen you risk having the corks blow one by one on your wine.
If you add any sugar (backsweeten) any wine (post fermentation) you should always add the sorbate as you will have some yeast in the wine no matter how good you rack. They could come back to life and start to ferment in the closed bottle and then POP, POP, POP......