Stirring the must / punching down

[Cosyden]

Do I need to stir during the primary fermentation if I use a syrup or tea base rather than fruit pulp?
I’ve got my first 2 wines on the go. The first is a gooseberry where I had the fruit in a bag in the fermenting bucket for the first week. The second is a rhubarb where I extracted the syrup and used that as a base (no fruit in the primary).
I’m planning to do an oak leaf and will make a tea from the leaves to use as a base.
I understand I need to “punch down” the fruit in the primary once or twice a day but how often, if ever, should I be stirring the syrup or tea base? Also, is it a gentle stir or more like whipping up cream? And for how long?
Thanks, G

 

[VinesnBines]

Yes, you do need to stir at least once or twice a day. It is best to have the must in an open bucket, not under airlock. Give it a good stir to get plenty of oxygen in the must. It does not have to be like whipping cream but not gentle like stirring milk into tea or coffee. You should have a spoon or paddle that reaches the bottom of the bucket to stir up the yeast that has settled. Just stir well for a few seconds. If you have active fermentation, stir enough to get the foam down. Keep a check with the the hydrometer and once you get to 1.010 or lower, you can stop stirring and put it under airlock.

 

[Cosyden]

Perfect, thank you very much.

 

[Jovimaple]

Cover the bucket with a towel to keep bugs and dust out, though.

 

[BigDaveK]

For the first two days I whip it up. I go crazy and make it foam. Couple times a day. You wouldn't believe how much CO2 is released. For the last two months all my ferments have been racked either on the third or fourth day, SG always close to 1.000. It was an experiment - all country wines, free raw material, no big deal if it failed.

 

[Cosyden]

Cover the bucket with a towel to keep bugs and dust out, though.

Thanks Jovi’, I’m just leaving the lid loose fitted.

For the last two months all my ferments have been racked either on the third or fourth day,

That’s fast. My gooseberry started at 1.088 and hit 1.022 at day 9. It’s fairly cool here though.

 

[BigDaveK]

That’s fast. My gooseberry started at 1.088 and hit 1.022 at day 9. It’s fairly cool here though.

I'm looking forward to gooseberry. My harvest was done before I started this hobby and I didn't freeze any.

It was cold here too. I had a brew pad under the buckets set to 73F just in case.
I've only had 1 long ferment. My "Waiting For Godot" blueberry was started in November, been in secondary, still bubbling, seems impossible. Getting rediculous. SG down to 1.004. Thinking about stopping it by adding brandy.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

I'm looking forward to gooseberry. My harvest was done before I started this hobby and I didn't freeze any.

It was cold here too. I had a brew pad under the buckets set to 73F just in case.
I've only had 1 long ferment. My "Waiting For Godot" blueberry was started in November, been in secondary, still bubbling, seems impossible. Getting rediculous. SG down to 1.004. Thinking about stopping it by adding brandy.

1.004 sounds good. Get drinking. Bottle what you can’t.

my dragons pee started at 1.8 and it’s down to 1.018 in five days.

it’s got lime juice and berries and mango and all kinds of yummy stuff. Left over blueberries and skins come out today.

 

[Cosyden]

It was cold here too. I had a brew pad under the buckets set to 73F just in case.

Temperature has been around 18C (64F ish) in the house. I might have a look at heat pads for next winter.
I’m going to transfer the gooseberry into a gallon demijohn today, day 12. It’s at 1.012. I must admit, the smell of it is something else. Really looking forward to it.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

Temperature has been around 18C (64F ish) in the house.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

(Checks the forcast, going to be 92 today)

 

[winemaker81]

Temperature has been around 18C (64F ish) in the house.

My cellar is in the 17 - 20 C range (63 - 68 F) in the fall and spring. I have found that wine ferments fine in that range, and the only reason I've had to raise it is if there is a stuck fermentation. While dry pitching works, I've found that ferments take off faster and run more consistently when I make an overnight starter.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

(Checks the forcast, going to be 92 today)

A few inches of rain would be good. Only need 4 or 5 - not trying to be greedy.

 

[Cosyden]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

no no, not at all. The house is generally 16 to 18C all year. None of us are heat lovers. We’ve also 4 dogs. If the house gets warm they stink!

My cellar is in the 17 - 20 C range (63 - 68 F) in the fall and spring. I have found that wine ferments fine in that range, and the only reason I've had to raise it is if there is a stuck fermentation. While dry pitching works, I've found that ferments take off faster and run more consistently when I make an overnight starter.

That’s worth knowing. I’ve been pitching dry. I’ll try a starter.

I’ve been doing a bit of reading about fermentation times. For white grape wine some say a slower ferment is preferable. I wonder if this is true for lighter country wines.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

I’ve been splitting mine up and pitching half dry and then after that adding the other half that I made a starter.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

A few inches of rain would be good. Only need 4 or 5 - not trying to be greedy.

Yeah it's been crazy dry. We are supposed to get rain Thursday thru Monday so hopefully some of it gets down your way.

 

[winemaker81]

I’ve been doing a bit of reading about fermentation times. For white grape wine some say a slower ferment is preferable. I wonder if this is true for lighter country wines.

Cooler/slower ferments are supposed to preserve aromatics, and are generally preferred for whites and fruit wines.

However, yeast tends to do what it wants, and ferments in a mid-60's environment have produced must temperatures in the 80's. I've used frozen water bottles (sanitized, of course!) to cool the must.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

Cooler/slower ferments are supposed to preserve aromatics, and are generally preferred for whites and fruit wines.

However, yeast tends to do what it wants, and ferments in a mid-60's environment have produced must temperatures in the 80's. I've used frozen water bottles (sanitized, of course!) to cool the must.

I need to do a video of the 20 gallon glycol chiller I built for primarily cold soaking red must and the converted 60 liter milk cans with the coils I do it in. I can control the temp of the chiller fluid from ambient all the way down to -10F. Works great for cold stabilizing white wine as well as controlling the fermentation temp for reasons you cited. With 20 gallons of water/glycol mix at -10F I can freeze a 60 liter stainless milk can full of water solid in about 30 minutes with a water heater blanket wrapped around the can. The whole system I designed for cold soaking 180 liters (About 50 gallons) of red must at 48 degrees cost me about $1500 and that's including the cost of the stainless tanks and coils.

I'm actually planning to build another one, I think I'll do a how-to video. It's scaleable so It could be of interest to others wanting to make a smaller system.

 

[fermenter]

Just a thought, could a heated ceramic floor tile be used if fermenting in a cool/cold room for 1 to 5 gal. batches?

 

[Cosyden]

I’ve been splitting mine up and pitching half dry and then after that adding the other half that I made a starter.

That’s pretty interesting. What’s the idea behind that? Are you just covering all bases or was it the result of some experimenting?

Just a thought, could a heated ceramic floor tile be used if fermenting in a cool/cold room for 1 to 5 gal. batches?

We’ve got thermostatically controlled electric under floor heating in the bathroom. I reckon that would be ideal but my Mrs thinks not….

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Trying to cover all the bases. My first batch I just added dry on top of fruit and hoped for the best. Then I read just about EVERY post in this forum and many here swear that a guarantee to fermentation was to make a starter. I didn’t want to take a chance i prepared starter wrong or something. The dry goes on first and then I prepare the starter With the other half. By the time the starter batch goes on, the dry should be beginning to bloom as well.

im relying on my tile floor over concrete slab to keep my ferments at a fairly even temperature. Florida can get hot, but the floor stays more constant. It holds cool during day in summer and holds heat in the winter.

the room air temp can range from 79 down to 69 but I’m pretty sure the floor stays somewhere in between.