Strange Taste

[Wiz]

I never thought I would be writing this thread. I made several batches cabernet sauvignon from an Italian bulk concentrate in 2015 and am now starting to drink it now. The first 30 bottles tasted just great. I have just started the second batch and it has a strong chrysanthemum smell and taste. At least that I is how I would describe it from reading other posts. Any ideas?

 

[ceeaton]

Okay, never having had a wine with a Chrysanthemum aroma/taste, I've heard of Geranium aroma/taste. Questions:

Were both batches from the same batch of Italian concentrate?
In your notes is there anything different between the two batches (yeast, additives, oak, etc)?
Did you ferment the batches around the same time (ie. were there large variances in temperature when fermenting the two batches)?
Did you do MLF on both batches? If so did you use different MLB?
What was the ambient temperature when aging the wines in bulk, and after bottling? Was it a "normal" temperature?
Were the corks used to bottle from different batches or types (natural corks vs. synthetic)?

It looks like you regularly make this wine, bulk age for 6 months, then start drinking around 11 or 12 months. Was there anything different in the time line of making the Chrysanthemum smell/taste wine?

I'll add more questions as I noodle your problem through my prehistoric brain. My best solutions come during sleep.

Another thought, I see you make lot's of fruit wines that you normally back sweeten. Is there any way you could have accidentally use Potassium Sorbate instead of Potassium Metabisulfite on that batch of wine when you stabilized it? If you have a Cab Sauv bottle that doesn't exhibit the off aroma/taste, take a glass and add a very small pinch of the sorbate to it, let it sit about 20 minutes after swirling, and see if you get the same result as the chrysanthemum batch.

 

[Wiz]

Craig, thanks for the reply. I meant to say Geranium. I had even looked up Chrysantheum to see how to spell I.

The concentrate came out of the same drum. Actually, I made 5, 6 gallon batches and have been doing it for the past 6 or 7 years with no problems.

The only thing different between the first 2 batches was the yeast as I was using up some of my older yeast packages. In batch #1 I used Montrachet and in batch #2 I used Cuvee. Everythng else was the same.

All 5 batches were fermented within a 3 week period. Temperatures were about the same for all 5. I don't do a MLF on my wines.

Fermentation temperature averaged about 67 degrees daytime and about 62 degrees nighttime. Temperatures when in the bottle can move up into the low 70's.

Corks came out of the same bag of natural corks.

I always start making my wine in September.

I don't use sorbate in cabernet sauvignon.

Mike

 

[ceeaton]

Okay, that rules out my ideas. Nothing came to me in the middle of the night except a chill when I woke up without my share of covers (was 12*F outside last night, heat pump was struggling to keep up).

I thought Geranium odor came from Sorbate and MLF, so it sounds like there must be another cause. Don't think the yeast you had would cause that...hmmm. Your temperature is good. I guess I need to think or hope someone else has run into this before.

 

[michvin]

Gerniol is a naturally occurring monoterpine in many wine grape varieties. Cab Sauv is not known to have high levels, but since it was a concentrate, it may have had other varieties in it, as Malbec, Petite Verdot, etc. It is possible that bottle age/chemical interaction enhanced the development. Did you have any problems during fermentation? Did you maintain good SO2 protocols? Just my 2 cents.

 

[Wiz]

Yes, Michvin, I added Kmeta before fermentation and after when siphoning from the fermenter to the carboys. And no, no problems with the fermentation. We had company yesterday and opened 2 bottles from batch #3. No problems.