Successfully hygienic

[Asmarino]

My wine is bacteria-free!!!!

I gave our local food safety lab a bottle of my prickly pear wine and asked them what tests they can do. They told me one bottle was insufficient for all the tests they could do, but it was enough for bacteriological assay (without a yeast/mycological assay). I went around today and I was told that they cultured my wine for a week and they didn't find any bacterial colonies!!!! Yayyyyyy!!!

I didn't boil my fruit first (even though all recipes pertaining prickly pear suggest you do) because I wanted as little chance of pectins activating since I had/still have no pectinase. I sulfited the must three days after I blended the fruit, because I wanted it to first get as much spontaneous fermentation with local bacteria and yeasts to give it a terroir before unleashing Red Star Premier blanc and Premier Cuvee co-culture starter on it. [Research paper- Microbial Ecology Studies of Spontaneous Fermentation: Starter Culture Selection for Prickly Pear Wine Production by G.K. Rodriguez-Lerma and all]

I used a food-grade plastic bucket (that didn't seal air-tight) throughout because glass carboys are hard to find and cost a kidney. I left the hydrometer in there throughout because I didn't want to bother to sanitise it time and again; just gave it a whirl with sanitised fingers everytime I wanted a reading. After fermentation was done, to control oxidation, I laid a bleach-soaked-hot-water-rinsed plastic sheet on the bucket and placed the lid on top of it to create a better seal and cold-crashed it in a fridge for three weeks. I sulfited it again after that and left it alone.

When bottling, it had already been more than a week since sulfiting. I didn't add more nor did I sanitise the clean bottle with anything but hot water. The cork was a different matter entirely. Since my corker isn't due to arrive till the end of January (if at all, but I'm staying optimistic), I had to whittle the cork (#9) by hand using a whetstone until it was tapered enough to enter halfway through, then called it a day. The cork wasn't sanitised, and even if it was, the whetstone would have likely contaminated it or the sanitiser wouldn't have reached the inner layers of it I carved out. My guess is, there was still enough sulfite in the wine to cover for my lapse of hygiene there. Either that, or the 16% alc by vol did its magic.

I will never advocate lapse of cleanliness (it's close to godliness if nothing else) but mysophobia isn't warranted for winemaking. If my storeroom with my frankly atrocious approach to sanitisation and initial fermentation with whatever was on the fruits didn't kill this wine, then I think other people who're procrastinating their next wine out of fear of all the washing involved can relax and get started; wine (16% alc wine, at least) apparently can fend for itself. Evidence:

My wine is bacteria-free!!!!

 

[Rice_Guy]

My guess is that if I ran a bottle of 2024 wine I could find something. The question is at how many organisms per ml or per liter or per HL.

Wine is a preservative system. Incoming grapes would be expected to range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 per ml on a total plate count. Cactus pears will also have normal bacterial load. This will decrease because of alcohol and free SO2 and pH and time and temperature etc. When making a canned product we say killing 1 x 109 power is good enough. If this is 2023 product it will be lower etc. If there is oxygen exposure with a sterile filter that might let growth show up. Conclusion once you open it drink within a few days.

 

[BernardSmith]

Your concern is over bacterial contamination? OK, but why are you concerned about that? Most wine makers who have similar concerns are far more concerned about the presence of indigenous yeasts. Now, of course, the convention is to use K-meta (packaged as Campden tabs) to kill all indigenous yeast before they add their lab cultured yeast, but bacterial contamination is rarely a valid concern. It's the wild yeast that wine makers "fear" because they will make a wine with flavors and aromas the wine maker has no control over. Think about it: wines made from grapes might use 100 lbs of poorly washed or even unwashed grapes complete with bird poop, awash in insects, spiders' webs and the like, to make 5 gallons of wine. With a pH of close to 3 and a concentration of alcohol of around 12-14%, how many bacteria are likely to thrive? The significant question MIGHT BE - what strains of YEAST other than the strain I pitched is in this wine?

 

[Asmarino]

Sorry for not replying yesterday, I was busy with festivities. Merry Ge'ez Christmas everyone btw, (Yes we celebrate Christmas after New Year's, which in itself is three months after our own New Year, it's confusing I know but not to us and the Ethiopians).

Your concern is over bacterial contamination? OK, but why are you concerned about that?

Wine is a preservative system.

You're all right, I suppose no bacterial contamination shouldn't be that big a deal. But I'm thoroughly relieved that what I made isn't some rotgut that will send people rushing to the toilet.

It's the wild yeast that wine makers "fear" because they will make a wine with flavors and aromas the wine maker has no control over.

Under the green taste, like really green because it's still young, there's that hint of injera because apparently when you try for a spontaneous fermentation with wild yeast inoculation in injera country, you get injera flavours. Don't get me wrong, I love eating injera, I'm just not so thrilled about drinking it. I'm praying it'll lose those notes with age.

I served it yesterday to guests in a sanitised Chivas Regal bottle and everyone asked me if I fortified with the whiskey since it tasted "hot" (I didn't). They thought the heat was good and I disagree but I'm glad they liked it anyway.

 

[Sailor323]

Pathogens cannot survive the low pH of wine. I don't really understand this focus on high alcohol wine. Good wines are a balance of flavors and aromas. High levels of alcohol can overcome the taste of the wine, especially delicate fruit wines. Most good wines are in the range of 11-13%

 

[Asmarino]

Pathogens cannot survive the low pH of wine.

I know, I know, but I have no pH meter and added no exogenous acids to the prickly pear, which is only very slightly acidic and prone to quick spoilage because of it. That's why I worried.

I don't really understand this focus on high alcohol wine. Good wines are a balance of flavors and aromas. High levels of alcohol can overcome the taste of the wine, especially delicate fruit wines. Most good wines are in the range of 11-13%

I agree with you there; some of the best wines I've had were at the most 14%, but unfortunately I'm catering to a slew of wine novices who can drink Asmara Zibib neat (I could too, when I was younger) and their palates doesn't register an alcohol if it's not boozy.

I intend to take my winemaking commercial so I can't make it too tart or tone it down to tolerable ABVs without someone pointing out that it'd be hard to get drunk on the stuff. For a lot of people I've met, the concept of drinking but not getting drunk seems pointless and a waste of money.

So @Sailor323, I hear you, I just can't do as you say because, at the end of the day, you and I don't represent the majority of my would-be customers.

 

[winemaker81]

After fermentation was done, to control oxidation, I laid a bleach-soaked-hot-water-rinsed plastic sheet on the bucket and placed the lid on top of it to create a better seal and cold-crashed it in a fridge for three weeks.

Putting a bleach-soaked towel over the fermenter does nothing to prevent oxidation. It increases the risk of "corking" (tainting the wine) as bleach has bad interactions with corks.

Oxidation is caused by O2 in the air, so limited air contact post-fermentation is the key.

Post fermentation the wine is emitting a lot of CO2, so leaving it for a week or two with just a towel over it is safe. After that it needs to be in a closed container with limited headspace.

Can you get 4 liter jugs? Aging the wine in them works just fine -- I have a bunch of them for overflow (my main batches are 15+ US gallons).

You're all right, I suppose no bacterial contamination shouldn't be that big a deal. But I'm thoroughly relieved that what I made isn't some rotgut that will send people rushing to the toilet.

Once fermentation hits 10% (maybe less), spoilage organisms are very unlikely to be a problem. The thing that will send people to the toilet is too much consumption!

Under the green taste, like really green because it's still young, there's that hint of injera because apparently when you try for a spontaneous fermentation with wild yeast inoculation in injera country, you get injera flavours. Don't get me wrong, I love eating injera, I'm just not so thrilled about drinking it. I'm praying it'll lose those notes with age.

Some folks rave about wild (indigenous) yeast. I'm not a fan, as there are thousands of types of yeast and other microbial life that will LOVE to eat your must, and none of them care about what you want. Use of a known commercial yeast eliminates that risk.

Hopefully the injera taste will go away. As you said, the wine is green and it's going to change a lot over the next few months.

 

[winemaker81]

I know, I know, but I have no pH meter and added no exogenous acids to the prickly pear, which is only very slightly acidic and prone to quick spoilage because of it. That's why I worried.

Do you have access to citrus fruit? Lemon juice is commonly added to meads to increase the acid.

 

[Asmarino]

I swear someday I'll stop getting starstruck every time I see @winemaker81 on my threads!

When I said,

I laid a bleach-soaked-hot-water-rinsed plastic sheet on the bucket..

I meant a large plastic bag, cut open (LDPE poly bag, I believe you call them in the west), it's not a fabric. My bucket fermentor has a lid that doesn't seal flush, more like just sits on top, by adding the sheet, I make it close flush ~enough~ to be considered air-tight.

Regarding,

Do you have access to citrus fruit? Lemon juice is commonly added to meads to increase the acid.

Yes, I do. The problem isn't that I have no acid blends, I can always use citrus instead. It is that palates around here are not used to sour. We can eat spicy just fine, drink the most bitter coffees and the hottest whiskeys and liquors. But not acidic. Anyone can make lemonade here, but we're just not used to sour drinks. Wines are already under-consumed, I'm trying to get mine less tart and more fruity and sweet and alcoholic trying to cater to the masses.

 

[winemaker81]

I meant a large plastic bag, cut open (LDPE poly bag, I believe you call them in the west), it's not a fabric. My bucket fermentor has a lid that doesn't seal flush, more like just sits on top, by adding the sheet, I make it close flush ~enough~ to be considered air-tight.

Gotcha, I misread your post. Not the first time I've done it, nor is it likely to be the last.

During fermentation, use a towel. Yeast needs O2 for reproduction, so you want air. Plus it's easier to stir the wine 1-4 times per day.

Post fermentation, if you want to macerate the wine, skip the bleach and use just the plastic. If the plastic is clean, you're fine as it's not touching the wine.

Yes, I do. The problem isn't that I have no acid blends, I can always use citrus instead. It is that palates around here are not used to sour. We can eat spicy just fine, drink the most bitter coffees and the hottest whiskeys and liquors. But not acidic. Anyone can make lemonade here, but we're just not used to sour drinks. Wines are already under-consumed, I'm trying to get mine less tart and more fruity and sweet and alcoholic trying to cater to the masses.

Keep in mind that you are adding enough citrus juice to reduce the pH, NOT enough to flavor the wine. The goal is to reduce the pH enough to protect against hostile microbial life.

I add the juice of 3 to 4 lemons to a 19 liter batch of mead, which improves the taste by adding removing the "flabbiness" a wine that is too low in acid has. If you taste the lemon, too much has been added.

Note that I made wine without a pH meter for 4 decades (I have one now). Go by taste.

How big are your batches?

 

[Asmarino]

Post fermentation, if you want to macerate the wine, skip the bleach and use just the plastic. If the plastic is clean, you're fine as it's not touching the wine.


Keep in mind that you are adding enough citrus juice to reduce the pH, NOT enough to flavor the wine. The goal is to reduce the pH enough to protect against hostile microbial life.

I add the juice of 3 to 4 lemons to a 19 liter batch of mead, which improves the taste by adding removing the "flabbiness" a wine that is too low in acid has. If you taste the lemon, too much has been added.

Note that I made wine without a pH meter for 4 decades (I have one now). Go by taste.

How big are your batches?

I have a 25-Liter bucket I fill to the 20L mark, roughly 5 gallons. 3-4 lemons seems real good. It's often not that I want to macerate the wine, it's just that I have no carboys (they cost a fortune here, if you can find them, most are old enough to probably not be lead-free). So I keep my wines there throughout cold-crashing and the month required to source wine bottles.

PS - you're telling me I can go 4 decades without a pH meter? Why, that's great!!

 

[winemaker81]

PS - you're telling me I can go 4 decades without a pH meter? Why, that's great!!

A pH meter is handy to have, but it is not essential. In lieu that, pH test strips are helpful. Note that I went 3 decades without using anything other than my taste buds. And previous generations of winemakers went their entire lives without either.

If the pH is > 3.9, the wine is far more open to hostile microbial life, as a lower pH is a bad environment for them. I've read that 3.6 is a good dividing line, but there are many commercial wines with pH of 3.7 to 3.8 that are fine. IMO the difference is what's best (pH < 3.6) and what is workable (pH < 3.9).

If the pH is below 2.9, that's too acidic for wine yeast, so you won't get a good ferment, if at all.

The best advice is to taste the must / wine at every stage. It's the cheapest self-taught lesson in winemaking you can get.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Wine is a preservative system. With traditional technology pH is one of the fences that prevents the growth of food poisoning organisms. Your risk to the customer is higher if you run high pH. Yes it can be done. A beer will typically be pH 4.5 to 5.0. For stability alternative techniques are done as a one hour boil step, followed by generating 5% ABV, followed by refrigeration and storage under CO2 (anaerobic)
I encourage you to have an idea what the pH is as testing with pH paper.

Some cactus pear numbers 2020 & 2021; pH 4.69, 5.52; SG 1.026, 1.045; total acidity; 0.12, 0.08. OK what does this mean? Grape wines typically have a TA between O.50 to 0.75%. A low TA in cactus pears means that it will be easy to push the pH lower with a small addition of citrus or acid blends. Normal “good taste” has a bigger acid note (TA) so I would encourage you to drop the pH some. Wines which are under 0.5% TA are called “flabby”. Another way to structure your control is to model coke soda pH 2.57 TA 0.10%. The lower pH resists food poisoning organisms and the low TA washes off the taste buds faster so it has less acidic flavor.

Hot flavor; oxidized ethyl alcohol (acetaldehyde) at low level is described as apple like. Above 100ppm I describe it as a burn in the back of the throat when swallowing. You can create a food safe product above pH 4.0 but your shelf life with metabisulphite addition is so much better at lower pH ,, so why not build some oxidation resistance into the beverage.

There are many microbes that can grow in no alcohol oxidative beverages. You as a food producer can relax / be more sloppy if pH is one of your controls. Flavor wise food is cooking. Everything is based on balance. ,,, And ethyl alcohol is a sweet flavor.

 

[winemanden]

Pathogens cannot survive the low pH of wine. I don't really understand this focus on high alcohol wine. Good wines are a balance of flavors and aromas. High levels of alcohol can overcome the taste of the wine, especially delicate fruit wines. Most good wines are in the range of 11-13%

So true!