Super Kleer on my apricot turned cloudy?

[Rudhawk]

I've got a 3 gal carboy of Apricot (started in July) which was slightly cloudy. This happens every year but sometimes it clears on it's own. If not, I usually add Super Kleer which works well. But not this year. I used 1/4 tsp per gal of pectic enzyme 24 hrs. prior to pitching the yeast and another 1/4 tsp 2 days later. After ferment and racking, the wine was degassed. It was slightly cloudy through 2 more rackings.

A month ago, I added the Kieselsol . After 24 hrs, the wine had cleared substantially. I then added the Chitosan and stirred it in. The next day the wine was still cloudy from the stirring; it has not cleared up in over a month.

Just wondering if anyone has had this problem. And know what would have caused this?

I'm thinking about trying another packet of Kieselsol to see what happens.

Last resort would be to run this through my Buon Vino filter - except I hate to do this since it seems to strip flavor out of this delicate wine. Any suggestions are welcome.

Pat

 

[dralarms]

I've had this problem on a bunch of whites. I ended up buying a bottle of the first half and just use it on whites now.

 

[jamesngalveston]

I have used a ton of super kleer.
My take...some wines have more positive particles some have more negative.
The super kleer doesnt take that in to account.
I usually add the first packet, and after it clouds up and drops sediment,.
I add the second part, and let it clear.
Since you know the second part did not clear, add the first part again.

 

[Rudhawk]

I have used a ton of super kleer.
My take...some wines have more positive particles some have more negative.
The super kleer doesnt take that in to account.
I usually add the first packet, and after it clouds up and drops sediment,.
I add the second part, and let it clear.
Since you know the second part did not clear, add the first part again.

Yes, I'm going to try the Kieselsol again and I'll post the results.

I am still curious as to why the Chitosan would create this clouding. Maybe, there were just WAY to many positive charged particles for the Kieselsol to handle and the postive charged Chitosan just exacerbated the problem; "dislodged" them from the Kieselsol?

Funny thing is - I should have been more patient; I've got a wine bottle full of excess apricot from the ferment which is under airlock aging next to the carboy. It is perfectly clear! What a difference a month makes.

 

[HillPeople]

My advice is to mix up a little bentonite a day in advance and then use 2 tablespoons/gal. of the slurry mixed into a little of your wine. Dump it in, stir it up, you'll be amazed. I have used the combination of Super Kleer and bentonite- spaced out a couple days- on many fruit wines. It has always performed miracles.
Attached is a picture of some just bottled dry hard cider.

 

[Rudhawk]

I added the packet of Kieselsol. I'm going out of town until next Tues. We'll see how that does. If it doesn't clear enough, I'll try the bentonite - I have never used it post-fermentation. But I look forward to it.

 

[Turock]

2 Tbs of betonite per GALLON is too much. Did you mean 2 Tbs. per FIVE GALLONS? Don't over dose bentonite because it can strip the flavor. Otherwise, I agree with the advice.

Proteins have a positive charge--bentonite is a negative charge. So if the haze is from proteins, the bentonite should work well.

5 months is still very young for wines. In bulk aging, they continue to drop out sediment. But you have to give it time. I never recommend manipulating wine for clarity until, at least, the 6 month mark. And waiting for 9 months is even better because you're trying to allow the wine enough time in the bulk aging stage for it to drop as much sediment as it can. When that process seems to stall, THEN you can begin clarification tactics.

Very pulpy fruit--when the ferment is done on the pulp--really needs some help. Instead of using pectic enzyme, go to a better pectinase such as Lallzyme C-Max. It does a better job of breaking down viscous musts and aids in clarity. Also, you should bentonite the primary. The action of the CO2 keeps it in suspension and in contact with the positively charged proteins and once it's in the secondary, clarification begins rapidly, most of the time. Use 2 Tbs. per 5 gallons.

 

[HillPeople]

No- I meant 2 Tbs. /gallon- of the resulting slurry, which I make the day before using 3 Tbs. bentonite dissolved in 1 pint boiling water. The bentonite expands to about 20 times its original volume in making the slurry. So I would guess for a 5 gal. batch I'm not adding more than 1 Tbs. of actual bentonite.
The clarifying action is truly amazing on hazy fruit wines because the SuperKleer and bentonite have opposite charges.
I agree with Turock. Time is your friend in clarifying. But I wouldn't hesitate to use this method post-ferment after a couple months. And like Turock said, in the primary the bentonite is agitated due to the rising CO2 bubbles, so you do need to gently stir it once a day for 3-4 days when you add it post ferment.

 

[Turock]

OK Hill---that sounds good.

 

[Rudhawk]

"5 months is still very young for wines. In bulk aging, they continue to drop out sediment. But you have to give it time. I never recommend manipulating wine for clarity until, at least, the 6 month mark. And waiting for 9 months is even better because you're trying to allow the wine enough time in the bulk aging stage for it to drop as much sediment as it can. When that process seems to stall, THEN you can begin clarification tactics."

I would like to bulk age for a year - but I've got a wine competition coming up in May and since I still need to back sweeten, I want it in the bottle for 4-5 months so it will rest prior to the competition.

In 10 years of making this Apricot, there have only been a couple times it did not clear on it's own. But, I will definitely, try out the Lallzyme C Max next year. I see MoreWine has it in stock.

Well, it's been a week on the 2nd packet of Kieselsol and it has cleared somewhat.


I racked the bottle and carboy and will give it a few more days then I'll try the bentonite.

 

[jamesngalveston]

did you make that bottle filler in the backgound...if so..would you share that design.

 

[Rudhawk]

did you make that bottle filler in the backgound...if so..would you share that design.

I copied this design
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f83/bottling-day-hoffart-auto-bottle-filler-29922/index2.html

and made a few modifications like the SS tubes that go through the Vacu Vin stopper for filling & overflow. I left the overflow SS tube moveable so I can slide it up or down to vary the level in the bottle depending on cork size.

 

[HillPeople]

I think you'll be amazed at what happens when you stir in some bentonite slurry. Time is the best clarifier, but sometimes there's just too little of it.