Taming Tannins

[mainshipfred]

I've been a little unsatisfied with the bitterness and astringency in some of my wines, especially Tannat. Although I like big high tannin wines I would like experiment trying to soften them a bit. I will attempt to modify my procedure this year but want to play around with the 21s and 22s. A commercial recommended Gum Arabic but I would also like to try gelatin and Colle Perle. Does anyone have any experience with these?

https://morewinemaking.com/products/cellarscience-liquibody-mouthfeel-enhancer.htmlhttps://morewinemaking.com/products/gelatin-clarifier-grade-1.html Colle Perle | MoreWine

 

[winemaker81]

Have you tried fining with egg whites?

 

[mainshipfred]

When I was looking into the gelatin it said it was similar to fining with egg white though I never tried it.

 

[winemaker81]

Either may help.

Glycerin makes a difference. My 2019 second run was great with glycerin, whereas untreated bottles were undrinkable.

 

[mainshipfred]

I already have glycerin but literature doesn't address tannins like the others do. It doesn't hurt to try it though since I already have it.

 

[winemaker81]

Try a few test batches -- take a gallon and add 3/4 oz, stir well, remove a glass. Repeat with 1/4 oz increments up to 1-1/2 oz. Removing 4 oz glasses won't skew things enough to notice. You'll have 4 samples to try.

 

[ibglowin]

First off the easiest way to tame tannin IMHO is to press easy and then don't add more to the wine upfront. Keep free run and press run separate. Then and to me this is a good thing and that is wine will soften with age making tannin fade away into the background and giving your hard work a long shelf life (assuming you have your cellar at cooler temps (~55F).

 

[mainshipfred]

Yes, all o f the products recommend small increments. I'm more likely to do three bottles of each with different amounts so I can taste them side by side since I have a rough time remembering what a previous one was like.

 

[VinesnBines]

Taste testing on your own is useful but may not be entirely accurate. I was tempted to dump a 22 Marchal Foch blend but decided to have a blending/bench tasting with several family members. After pulling the samples, aerating and sitting down with a Charcuterie and a structured tasting, I was shocked that the wine was actually quite good and the blending trials were a success.

In short, let others help you in the taste testing. At this point you may be too biased against the wine to make a reasoned decision.

 

[winemaker81]

In short, let others help you in the taste testing. At this point you may be too biased against the wine to make a reasoned decision.

This is spot on!

Many folks are their own worst critic (especially me). Blind taste testing, especially with others, is the way to go.

After pulling the samples, aerating and sitting down with a Charcuterie and a structured tasting, I was shocked that the wine was actually quite good and the blending trials were a success.

Emphasis mine. A wine distributor I knew made a comment that has stuck with me: "If judging a wine, serve it with crackers. If selling a wine, serve it with cheese."

Some wines are great on their own, while others are not but complement food. Run 2 tastings in one -- first with crackers for an objective view, and again with a variety of snacks to see what that changes.

 

[mainshipfred]

I couldn't agree more with both comments, I think we are all our worse critic. My past 2 Tannats that went to competition both came back with a bronze with most if not of the comments being high astringency.

I'm getting ready to blend my 2021 wines and would like to see what trying these products might have on the overall taste of the individual wines prior to blending. Having other opinions is always appreciated. As much as I would like help blending I try not to inconvenience people. About half the time I'll blend myself and come up with a few blends than have others help making the decision of which is the more favorable.

In a couple of week I'm going to do a Bordeaux blend with all 5 varietals. I will definitely want to enlist the help of others with this. The thing about blending is you just can't blend very many in one sitting. Since all my wines are a blend of sorts it would take several days of enlisting help.

 

[VinesnBines]

I try not to inconvenience people

Gee Fred, are your family and friends inconvenienced by eating good snacks and tasting wine?

Seriously, I get the need to narrow your testing options.

If you need help, I'm sure we can rustle up some Guinea Pigs.

 

[winemaker81]

As much as I would like help blending I try not to inconvenience people.

Seriously? If I say the words "wine tasting" the only inconvenience is me fighting people off with a stick.

Give me a few weeks notice when you're going to taste test -- if possible, I'll arrange to visit my brother that weekend. I'm sure he'd be interested, as would my elder son if he's not otherwise engaged.

Also consider that you don't need to do just one blend. Last fall my son & I liked Grenache and Tempranillo on their own, but also blended with a Southern Rhone blend, so we bottled a few cases of varietals and the remainder as a blend.

 

[StimVino]

I've been a little unsatisfied with the bitterness and astringency in some of my wines, especially Tannat. Although I like big high tannin wines I would like experiment trying to soften them a bit. I will attempt to modify my procedure this year but want to play around with the 21s and 22s. A commercial recommended Gum Arabic but I would also like to try gelatin and Colle Perle. Does anyone have any experience with these?

https://morewinemaking.com/products/cellarscience-liquibody-mouthfeel-enhancer.htmlhttps://morewinemaking.com/products/gelatin-clarifier-grade-1.html Colle Perle | MoreWine

I recently purchased several barrels to reduce astringency and Im in process of getting these set up. However, I've tried gum arabic in powdered form, which I dont recommend. The powder has trouble dissolving in the wine and tends to clump together even after mixing. If using GA liquid, I dont think you will have any issues integrating. I was using GA more for body on a fruit wine, which it did ultimately improve, but took alot of mixing.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

Either may help.

Glycerin makes a difference. My 2019 second run was great with glycerin, whereas untreated bottles were undrinkable.

Question: How much glycerin per 6 gal carboy? or per bottle?

 

[QuiQuog]

As much as I would like help blending I try not to inconvenience people.

Yeah, no. You'll only compliment people if you ask them to help you bench test your wine. First, sampling wine isn't an inconvenience. Secondly, If you ask a man to help, it means you value his opinion. That's a compliment. Few will feel inconvenienced.

 

[winemaker81]

Question: How much glycerin per 6 gal carboy? or per bottle?

I generally recommend 1/2 to 1 oz per 1 US gallon / 4 liters, averaging 2/3 to 3/4 oz. I've added more to a few wines that had a harshness that resisted taming. Also, at least one person on the forum mentioned using 1-1/2 oz / gallon (IIRC).

1/2 oz is a good starting point -- go by taste and preference from there. This has a lot of latitude -- if you add 1/4 or 1/2 oz more than "necessary", it's not going to cause any real problem.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* Lodi has some yeast manans which claim to manage high tannin
* with liquid gum arabic in the club as a demonstration it smoothed the tannin. On a one shot test with my wine using a soluble but dry gum arabic I felt it didn’t do much.
* in removing astringency in black raspberry gelatin worked. Since then I have gotten other proteins as a casein from MoreWine
*

 

[Ohio Bob]

Question: How much glycerin per 6 gal carboy? or per bottle?

I use 8oz per 5/6 gallons. Mostly for convenience as I buy 4oz bottles.

 

[winemaker81]

I use 8oz per 5/6 gallons. Mostly for convenience as I buy 4oz bottles.

I can't recall what your annual production is, but buying by the gallon is a LOT cheaper.