Other Tannin - How much, when, what type?

[tjgaul]

I've played with oak (spirals, cubes & chips) and I like what it does for the wine, but my reds are still a bit one dimensional and could use more body and complexity. I'm thinking that some tannin additions might be part of the answer. I have added small amounts of standard tannin powder (see below) to a couple batches during primary and have made one small addition in secondary, but I have not really tweaked enough to notice any effect.

I just received some Tannin Riche Extra and Tannin Complex. The recommended dosage rates seem pretty meager. I was wondering how much is typical to add to a 6 gal batch, when is the best time to add it and should it be done in stages . . . ie: 1st and 3rd racking?

My preliminary plan was to add the standard (cheap) powder to primary as sacrificial tannin and use a combination of Riche and Complex at the time I add oak. I'll be working with 18L kits with skins.

Tips, comments, criticisms are all welcome.

 

[sour_grapes]

I use 7-8 g of sacrificial tannin (FT Rouge in my case), and have used 2.5 or 3 g of Tannin Riche Extra in a few batches. Those with the Tannin Riche turned out very well: a bit of drying sensation on the finish, but not like sucking on a teabag!

 

[salcoco]

bench trials is one way to see any benefit. I received a chart from Scott Labs at a conference a few years back. What it suggested is either a 5% solution or a 10% solution, 5% is 5 grams of tannin in 100ml with a 10% 10 grams in 100ml of water. for a 750ml wine sample 100ppm of tannin would equal 1.5ml of the 5% and .75ml of 10%. it double this amount for 200ppm and incements at 1.5 and .75 for 5% and 10% solution per 100ppm. Scott labs has a number of post fermentation tannin that they suggest. take the sample(s) and age for a few weeks or a month and taste test. use the best combination to dose the final batch.

 

[tjgaul]

bench trials is one way to see any benefit. I received a chart from Scott Labs at a conference a few years back. What it suggested is either a 5% solution or a 10% solution, 5% is 5 grams of tannin in 100ml with a 10% 10 grams in 100ml of water. for a 750ml wine sample 100ppm of tannin would equal 1.5ml of the 5% and .75ml of 10%. it double this amount for 200ppm and incements at 1.5 and .75 for 5% and 10% solution per 100ppm. Scott labs has a number of post fermentation tannin that they suggest. take the sample(s) and age for a few weeks or a month and taste test. use the best combination to dose the final batch.

I agree that bench tests would be a good idea. That's how I handle back sweetening. However, don't the tannins continue to develop over a long period of time? I read the Scott Labs tech sheet and they refer to complete polymerization. While a month to 6 weeks might give an indication of where the wine is going, does it show most of the impact or will the wine continue to evolve significantly over time?

On that note . . . is it common to add the tannin in the last racking before bottling (say 8-10 weeks) or earlier on in the aging process?

 

[sour_grapes]

On that note . . . is it common to add the tannin in the last racking before bottling (say 8-10 weeks) or earlier on in the aging process?

May want to see what Scottlabs says. They distinguish between "cellaring tannins" and "finishing tannins." The latter may be used as you described above. http://www.scottlab.com/products-106.aspx

WHAT IF I DID NOT ADD ENOUGH TANNIN DURING THE PRIMARY FERMENTATION?
If more tannin structure and flavor is desired post-fermentation, make additions with Tannin Complex or Tannin Estate. Addition is best before barrel aging when tannins can be incorporated into the wine and when oxidation and polymerization are slow. Tannin Refresh, Tannin Riche and Tannin Riche Extra are the best tannins to use prior to bottling (3-6 weeks) when a bit of oak influence is desired. Any of these tannins can be used throughout winemaking, depending on the desired effect. Bench trials are required to determine the best tannin for a particular wine or style.

 

[Hordak]

I think you are on the right track. For reds I always add 1tsp generic wine tannin and 1tsp FT Rouge at the beginning in the must. Then I ferment for 1-2 months so all the grape pack and extra currants and/or homemade f-pack I add get full tannin extraction. Then I rack and add K-meta and 1tsp again of FT Rouge and 1tsp of a finishing tannin like Tannin Riche Extra or Quertannin Intense. About two months later I rack again and add 30-60 grams oak cubes and another 1tsp finishing tannin and let it sit for another 2-3months.

So far so good. Pretty Oaky at first tasting at bottling but mellows after year plus.