Thick Muscadine wine help. Warning, long read!

[LoneStarLori]

I don’t even know where to start with this so I’ll just give as much info as I can recall. I have a Muscadine in a carboy that I started in early July. This was made from grapes growing on my fence in a house I bought last year. I have never made wine nor had any clue what I was doing. So of course I went to the Internet, Youtube, books and a local winemaking store for advice. That was before I found this forum and all the wonderful pros out there.
My problem is I have a wine that has not been stabilized yet and is near dry. Tastes very tart and is rather thick. Kind of the consistency of a store bought peach nectar. Maybe not quite as thick.
I’ll explain how I got to this point if it will help: I wasn’t keeping track in the beginning because I thought it just happened all by itself. I started with about 6 gallons of Muscadine grapes. Destemmed and smashed them in a large container. I moved them to a 5 gal pail and went to the local ‘winery’ for advice. They do tastings and allow customers to make their own wine either onsite or at home from kits they sell. He gave me some chemicals from the back room bulk chems and told me when to add them. Also gave me come c-118 yeast. The next day I added the yeast along with some Potassium Meta he gave me. I put a plastic top on it and pressed down the must once a day for a week. I then strained and squeezed the grapes to an excessive degree. To the point the fruit was coming out in a gel. Then added 2lbs of sugar dissolved in 1 qt of water. If I recall, the SG was about 107 after adding sugar. I put an airlock on it and went out of town for several days. It was not bubbling before we left or when we got back. I could see that it had been busy but wasn’t sure if it had really fermented since I never saw a bubble.

There were a lot of lees so I decided it was time to rack and carboy. However there wasn’t nearly enough to fill the carboy and it was still too sour. Soo… I added another 3 lbs. of sugar in 1 gal of water AND 3 cans of frozen no sugar added grape concentrate along with the 3 cans of water per can as directed. Measured the SG at 1.09 and slapped a bung on it. I did not stabilize it. As you might imagine, I had quite a mess on my hands the next day. (Lesson learned) The carboy was bubbling over sediment and grape juice everywhere. I cleaned it up and left a little more room in the top.
So here were are now 6 weeks later with a wine that is still simmering but almost done. It is very dry, kind of light on taste and relatively thick. I think there is a load of pectin in it. I have no idea what the acid is or the alcohol but I can tell you it’s a pretty warm feeling when I taste it. The SG is steadily falling. As of today it’s a 99.6 SG.
The questions I have are: Should I leave it to ferment until it is no longer thick even after it's dry before I stabilize and clear? If I stabilize when it’s about 99, will it eventually thin out? I’m not real clear on Malolactic fermentation, is this or should it be part of the equation? Help me oh wise ones!

 

[jamesngalveston]

1. you had 6 gallons of muscadines and you made a 5 gallon batch of wine.
2. i would have made a one gallon batch out of 6 gallons grapes.
3. if you have the fruit in without a bag, thats where the thickness comes from. pulp,skins, seeds,dead yeast, etc.
4. its light on taste becuase you didnt have enough grapes for a 5 gallon batch.
I would rack and add campden/k-meta
If your in a hurry to drink it..I would rack everyday for a week,and then see if it cleared any, if so..i would treat again with campden/k meta and sorbate.
I would sweeten and add some grape concentrate for flavor,then let it clear.
If you are not in a hurry, rack it, and let it sit till clear....may take a month are two..
Does it have any brownish tint to it...

 

[Julie]

I believe you are reading your hydrometer wrong. the sg should be .996 not 99.6. It is dry because all the sugar has been converted to alcohol. Yes rack and add k-meta and sorbate, then you should backsweeten it your liking. 1 cup of sugar will raise sg approximately .018 per gallon.

 

[jamesngalveston]

you could also try to get ahold of a few pounds of muscadines and make a fruit pak to add , that would give it some natural fruit flavor...

 

[LoneStarLori]

So I'm hearing racking from both of you. There is no brown tint so I have no excuse to kill it.
James, you didn't mention sorbate. Should that be added too if I decide to rack now?
I found 1 1/2 gal of grapes in my freezer. I don't want to start all over, but I hate to rack when it is so light on taste. Can you explain the process of a fruit pack?

 

[LoneStarLori]

I labeled the 2 bags of grapes by quart for canning. 2 bags, 3 qts each. They weigh about 4 lbs per bag

 

[jamesngalveston]

yes add the sorbate along with either campden are k-meta.
add the sorbate and campden with a little wine and stir until its all disolved.
then add to wine and stir.

Lori....is the same wine as the other post about mustang grapes...

 

[LoneStarLori]

I think I'd like to do the fruit pack you were talking about. If I leave it the way it is, I don't hold out much hope. I am not in any hurry to drink it. I have a few others going that will keep me occupied.
So, how to proceed with the fruit pack? Is there a link you would suggest?

 

[jamesngalveston]

is this mustang grapes, are muscadine.

 

[LoneStarLori]

Not 100% sure. I have seen pics of both and they tend to look closer to Mustang. Some of the pis I saw the Muscadines appeared much bigger than these. I just found a few stragglers. This is about the average cluster. These are fresh off the vine and the hydrometer from now also. Looks like it has changed since this morning.

 

[LoneStarLori]

Just a note. They were quite sour and very, very acidic. We had to use gloves when handling them. Skins are rather thick. They are not 'quite' as sour now but I still couldn't eat them.

 

[Julie]

they are going to be sour because the sugars have been converted to alcohol. you need to rack first, then add the k-meta and the sorbate, then you can backsweeten. I don't think you need to add an f-pac. is the flavor weak or thin? Muscadines are a strong flavor wine and they can take water. Just stabilize for right now, take a some out add a little sugar and taste it. If it is to your liking take a reading so you know where to backsweeten it to. You probably should go to 1.010. If it has a thin taste then think about adding an f-pac. And when taking a reading spin the hydrometer so it is not sticking to the side of your test tube.

 

[LoneStarLori]

I reads .992 with a spin. It just got stuck to the side while I was trying to take a picture.
It taste very dry and sour. Not any real fruit flavor to speak of. But a LOT of alcohol.
What if I try boiling down some of the grapes I have left to make a concentrate and sweeten it as I like and adding it after racking and adding k-meta and sorbate. Think that will salvage it?

 

[jamesngalveston]

Lori that is a mustang grape, not like the muscadine at all...
that accounts for the thickness...they are highly acidic, and is unlike any other grape. After an hour of picking my hands were burning.
I have made three batches of mustang grape, one is an old fashioned way.
The other two made the newer way..One i tossed becuase it was so bad,
the other has been clearing for 6 weeks, and still show no signs of clearing.
The one I made the old way is gorgeous and is still fermenting after 8 weeks.
That said...I would not use the grapes you have for a fruit pack.
I would use some concord grape concentrate along with some sugar.
If you add the fresh mustang grapes, you will get a haze from the new fruit.....
They contain huge amounts of tannic acid (burning hands,sour, etc).

 

[LoneStarLori]

Ah ha! So now I can call it Mustang Island Magic? lol

Grape concentrate it is. It's easy to find and not nearly the mess. I'll keep y'all posted. Can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice. Yoiu ahve both been great.
Maybe next year, the old fashioned way. Sounds so tasty.

 

[jswordy]

1.) IMO, those are not muscadines. They are most likely a wild aestivalis. I have some on my place, as well. They make great wine. If left dry, they make a long-aging wine.

2.) If you'd like a sweet wine that can be consumed earlier, rack and add k meta and sorbate as advised, wait 4-5 days to ensure stability, then add sugar to back sweeten to your tastes.

3.) If you want a dry wine, rack and leave it just as-is.

4.) Let your wine sit and bulk age in the carboy. It will drop more lees and sediment. It may have to sit another 3 months or more. Rack as needed.

5.) When sediment pretty much quits accumulating, put your wine into a refrigerator (if necessary, transfer to gallon jugs to do this.) Cold stabilize the wine for a minimum of 3 weeks in the fridge. Tartrate crystals will fall out, as well as more sediment.

6.) Pour your wine carefully while cold through a reusable coffee filter in a funnel and back into a carboy. This eliminates the crystals.



7.) Allow the wine to warm to room temperature. Bottle.

8.) Let your bottles sit some more. At about 7 months from the end of fermentation, try one. Probably will be best at a year after fermentation ceased, especially if you left it dry.

9.) Don't be in a hurry. The more it sets, the better it gets.

If you wish to buffer acid/sour notes, next time you ferment, place 1 cup of self-rising cornmeal in a couple layers of cheesecloth, tie it up, and add it to your must for the fermentation period.

It is also possible to use baking SODA (not powder) to buffer taste prior to bottling, but it does add a small amount of sodium to the wine. There is also potassium bicarbonate available at your wine supply that will do it without adding sodium.

Another tip: When you finish fermentation and go to pressing, don't press the grapes dry like you are trying to strangle them. Go easier and you will have less acidity. These semi-damp skins can then be used to ferment a "second pressing" wine if you wish. I have made some good second pressing wines.

 

[LoneStarLori]

Wow. those are some great instructions. You put all the bits and pieces of what I have been reading about acids and tartrates in the last month into a understandable format for me. Thanks Jim!

I will probably do the fast track on this batch and go longer next year. I will get some potassium bicarbonate because it is pretty acidic. I have heard of the cornmeal before but not till after I finished the fermentation. I probably should have tested the acid first but I don't have a kit.


Thats a beautiful carboy you have there. Is that from the wild ones?

 

[LoneStarLori]

Another question
I have some Pectic Enzyme on hand that says it prevents Pectic haze. Would that be worth trying to help reduce some of the sliminess? Or will that dissipate with age?

 

[jswordy]

It's muscadine in the carboy. Same basic process with all grapes.

The "sliminess" I can only expect will reduce with carboy aging and further settling. You could try a clearing agent to speed that along if you are in a hurry, perhaps SuperKleer or some such rapid process; I just let mine settle naturally.

 

[LoneStarLori]

Ok, I received my grape concentrate in the mail today. It is REALLY strong. Since it comes from a health food place, it is very pure and almost a syrup. Ingredients are only Concord grapes.
I added 20 oz of concentrate and 32 oz of water. Still was a little to dry for my taste so I added 1/2 LB of local wildflower honey. It is much fuller now and I think there is hope. I will age let it sit and rack as necessary then refrigerate as per Jims suggestion.

Here are some pictures of the color difference. This is with only 20 ounces of concentrate in 5 1/2 gallons. !

Now we wait.