Throwing in the towel on the Brunello.

[Rocky]

I think I have taken this Brunello as far as I can and I am at my wits end, and believe me, that is not a long journey!

This Brunello was made from 3 Mosto Bello juice buckets that I bought late in the season last year. When I got them home and into a fermenter, my first SG reading was 1.058. I knew I had a problem then but I decided to go ahead anyway. Being 180 miles from the supplier, I had no alternative. It fermented down to about 1.010 and then stopped. After many tries, I got it going again and it finished out at about 0.996. The wine is very, very dark and not a nice color at that, more a deep purple than a red. It has a slightly "off taste" not spoiled but not fruity.

I have three 5 gallon carboys of it plus a 1/2 gallon jug. I made three+ bottles of "port" from the 1/2 gallon by adding sweetened Brandy (Christian Brothers, 40% alcohol) to bring it to 20+% ABV. The port is not bad but three bottles will last me for a long time.

For the other three carboys, right now I plan to bottle some and just put them away for a year or two, make some more port, cook with some and turn some to vinegar. I am open to ideas as to what to do with the wine.

The lesson here for me is to buy my juice buckets early in the year being sure they are not half fermented when purchased.

 

[robie]

Hey Rocky,

Tell me more about the color and the off taste. I am no expert, but if we throw out enough ideas, we might come up with something.
Is the color brickess - oxidized?
Is the off taste an oxidized taste or a chemical taste?
Does it taste of burnt rubber?

Seems if it partially fermented in the bucket before you got it, it could have some issues with volatile acid, but that taste is generally an acetone or nail polish remover taste. Take a whiff of some nail polish remover and decide if it is similar to your wine.

If the wine is oxidized, you can treat that. That dark color just might be oxidation, though. Of course you already know what oxidized wine tastes like.

Have you tried treating the wine with some bentonite? A teaspoon stirred in really well and allowed to settle can take a lot of bad stuff down with it. Better to do a smaller bench test.

Try a bench test sample with some tannin powder.

Try heating the wine to about 60C; let it cool and taste. If that helps, it could be some pyrazines.

Take a sample and shack it for about a minute to over aerate it. That might point to something, too.

Hate to hear about such a large batch being a possible throw-away.

 

[Wade E]

Just another reason why I wont buy these buckets, IMO they dont come out as good as a good kit and are a lot more work and usually dont even come close to a good kit.

 

[Rock]

Just another reason why I wont buy these buckets, IMO they dont come out as good as a good kit and are a lot more work and usually dont even come close to a good kit.

Yea Wade you keep buying the kit wines,more grapes for us.

 

[Rocky]

Thanks for the great reply, Robie. Lots of good ideas there. I will get back to it tomorrow and answer your questions. In a nutshell, it seems to have a very, very slight oxidized taste that the alcohol in the Brandy completely washed away when I made the Port. I will investigate your other suggestions. This is a great help. I hate to give up on wine.

 

[Wade E]

Hey Rock. In no way do I think kits are better then grapes!!!!!! I just think the kits are better then most juice buckets.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Real Brunello is often described as freakishly black, so the color might be right. The taste is generally VERY strong, not very "berry-like" at all, some might describe it as "off".

Maybe its fine...

 

[Bartman]

Wade, I tend to agree about juice buckets and kits, but there are always exceptions. As usual, it goes back to "you get what you pay for" (hopefully). The Mosto Bello buckets were listed at $54 (retail) for 5 gal, which is pretty dang cheap for that much juice (compared to $100+ for Mosti Mondiale's Chile Fresco 6 gal buckets). I'm not trying to beat you down Rocky, but I would say the quality of this juice is questionable from the start. Some folks enjoy the challenge of making something good out of less-than-stellar ingredients, but to me, it's not worth the time and effort, even if the result is passable.

 

[Rocky]

Bart, I understand what you are saying and let me give you another perspective. I made 12 gallons of Verdicchio from juice and it is great. I made 18 gallons of Cabernet Sauvignon from juice it is turning out to be one of my best wines. In the interest of full disclosure, I did add two Syrah grape packs to this wine in primary. I have tried Mosti Mondiale's Zinfandel and Cabernet Sauvignon in the "All Juice Original" buckets and found them to be poor, very thin and lacking in taste. At the same time, I have also made MM AJO Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Grigio and found them to be excellent.

There does not seem to be any hard and fast rule but generally, white juice buckets seem to be good. This would square with how white wine is made, i.e. crushing and pressing the grapes immediately and not leaving the juice on the skins. Red juice buckets seem to be a craps shoot. Kits with grape packs and adding grape packs to juice buckets seem to result in a better wine.

The argument of grapes vs. juice vs. kits will rage on forever. I have made lots of wine from all three sources. Wine from grapes can be great and it can also be poor, depending on the year. There is no question that making wine from grapes requires more work, more equipment and is an order of magnitude more "messy." For me, it is not worth all that to make a wine that is marginally better (maybe!) than a wine I can make from good juice or a top quality kit, employing some minor additions and ameliorations. Just my opinion and experience, not trying to convince anyone one way or the other.

 

[shoebiedoo]

I DO think the grape packs help immensely when making the red "bucket wines" The whites I've made have all been real good. The Verdicchio Rocky made was superb! My Barolo (from juice) is one of the best red's I've made and I'm real proud of it. I did, just order a 4 pack of the Fior D?uva grape packs from ebay for the fall buckets. We'll see how they turn out.

I've often thought about going with frozen must but the cost factor almost triples So, I'm sticking to juice AND buckets.

 

[Wade E]

I agree that white wine buckets are better as are cheap white wine kits and also agree that the Mosti All juice buckets suck!!! Other then that IMO you either need to buy high end kits or take it to the next level with grapes and all the equipment and knowledge!

 

[joeswine]

When good wines gone bad?

NOT SUCH A FAR STEP TO TAKE ,FROM GOOD TO NOT SO GOOD,WHITE WINES ALWAYS TEND TO WORK OUT BETTER AS A RULE WHETHER ITS FRESH JUICE OR KITS,BUT THEIR IN LIES THE TRICK,BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF TANNINS,AND HEAVY PIGMENT,THEY IN THEMSELVES ONCE COMPLETED ARE WHAT THEY ARE ,LITE,CRISP AND USUALLY THIN IN BODY,THAT'S THEIR NORMAL MAKE UP,WHILE REDS TEND TO TAKE ON HEAVER MORE ROBUST TASTE DUE TO THE TANNINS.,AS FAR AS JUICE TO KITS OR FRESH JUICE IN GENERAL,OVER THE PAST 3 TO 4 YEARS I've NOTICE A MARKED DIFFERENCE IN THE BODY AS WELL AS THE AROMA (VIRTUALLY NONE)IN THE CHILEANS ,THE CALS AND ITYS ARE NOT FAR BEHIND EITHER i THINK THERE CUT TO MUCH,(TMO),ROCKY, MOST WINES ARE CORRECTABLE ,UNLESS THEIR VERY ACIDIC AND OR EXTREMELY OXIDIZED,SOME SMELLS CAN BE CORRECTED THROUGH FINE FILTERING,STRONG DEGASSING,TO BRING THEM AROUND AND TASTE CAN ALWAYS BE ADJUSTED SEND ME A COUPLE OF BOTTLES AND I'll EXCHANGE THEM WITH YOU ,DON'T GIVE UP YET ,...

 

[joea132]

I would put it aside and let it age for a while. Age does some incredible things to a wine and maybe will smooth out the flavor into what you're looking for. Might as well let it sit. It couldn't hurt.

 

[joeswine]

time in a bottle

In some cases its works ,but in most a defect only gets infectious and with out proper corrective action is a true waste of wine.

 

[Rocky]

I dug up this old thread to give you all an update on what is happening with the Brunello. Back in July, I was really out of ideas and generated this thread. I got a lot of great help from you all. Thank you!

I decided to keep the wine and see what happens with it after it had some age on it. I adjusted the SO2 and waited. In the meantime (here comes another MM bashing) I had a double batch of MM AllJuice Masters Edition Granbarolo going. Even though this kit has both a grape pack and raisins (and I used both), it was coming out much thinner and more acidic than I had expected. I wondered if blending this wine with the long suffering Brunello would help. Afterall, the Brunello was very heavy, very dark and lacking any tartness whatsoever. I drew out some sample wine from both varieties and tried three blending ratios: 3:1, 2:1 and 1:1 in a bench test. All three were a major improvement over either of the wines alone and the 2:1 was to our (Bev & mine) taste the best. The long and the short of it is, I blended two 5 gallon carboys of Brunello with one 5 gallon carboy of the Granbarolo and now have 3 carboys of a wine (Granbrunolo?) that I feel is really good. I still have 1 each 5 gallon carboy of both Brunello and Granbarolo, which I plan to let go as they are to see what, if anything, happens with some serious aging.

The lesson that I have come away with is to not give up on a wine (as long as it is not spoiled) just because the taste, aroma, mouth, etc. is not what I like. Blending wines is a means of combining wines that have strengths and weaknesses that complement, that is provide what is lacking, in another wine. This may not work in all cases and I advise going slowly, but it sure worked for me.

Thanks, again, for all your help.

 

[Wade E]

So glad all that money didnt go down the drain!!! Nothing better then makers. G chicken salad out of chicken sh!t it it working out!

 

[joeswine]

Decisions

That is why I started, when good wines gone bad, what to do , how do it and do not give up. P

 

[rob]

Joe,

Is When Good Wine Gone Bad available in a readers digest version

 

[Rocky]

I wanted to post an update to this thread. Yesterday, I filtered all three 5 gallon carboys of the 2:1 Blend of Brunello:Granbarolo. I put 13 gallons (2 each 5 gallon and 1 each 3 gallon) up for some more aging and I bottled 9 bottles of the blend. We are giving it away as part of our Christmas Gift to our "Gourmet Club," which is completely misnamed. (A more accurate description would be the "Gourmand Club") Anyway, the reason for including it in our gift is that we had a blind taste testing of three ratios of the Brunello and Granbarolo at one of our "Gourmet Nights" and the 2:1 was the favorite. I call it "Brurolo, the Gourmet's Choice."

The important point of all this is I had two wines which I found lacking. Luckily for me, the negatives of one were the positives of the other, and verse visa (yes, I know that is backward but that is how my Father used to say it). So, if you have a wine or two that is lacking, try to define what is lacking and remedy it. (Also, be sure to read the thread, "When good wine goes bad," or words to that effect, by Joeswine!)

Happy winemaking to all. (BTW, as I write this, I have a glass of my Brurolo going (not the first) and I am felling really "toasty.")

 

[robie]

That works for me!!! Glad it turned out OK. There is something really nasty about pouring wine down the drain.