WineXpert Too sweet! No dry characteristics

[geocorn]

Dean,


I see that you recommend MM kits. Have you made them yourself. If so, what do you think of the product?

 

[Dean]

George, I have made the la bodega port and a meglioli Sangiovese from last years limited edition! Prior to that, i've done an alljuice Amarone. The Amarone is quite nice after 14+ months of aging. The port is out-of-this-world good, and the Sangiovese needs more aging, but is coming along. I'm not really that much of a Chianti fan, so my judgement of the Sangiovese may not be fair. I do love supertuscans though!

 

[James]

BeachDragon,


I turned on the computer tonight and read your post. I'm enjoying a glass of the Classico de Veneto. I tasted a bottle of it at four months - not sweet but fruity. The bottle I opened tonight is 8 months old and a world of difference in taste. A lot drier than the first bottle and very drinkable.Looking forward to aging this one longer. I made this kit as per instructions. As I read this forum and buy more kits, I'm learning to think outside the box (no pun intended) just a little bit.


We get down to Orange Beach a good bit. What part of FL are you in if you don't mind me asking?


JimEdited by: James

 

[Beachdragon007]

I live in Ponte Vedra Beach. It's between Jacksonville and St. Augustine.


Here's a picture of me and Hank Wetzel, of Alexander Valley Vineyards. He's extremely cool, and a hell of a wine maker. If you get a chance, pick up Sin Zin for $20, or their incredible Cyrus blend usually at $80.


I've been to AVV and joined their wine club, and met Hank at a local wine shop at a tasting event here in Florida.

 

[rexmor]

The Sin Zin is dangerously delicious, and I have been able to buy it at Costco [here in San Diego] for around $16. Actually, I buy a high percentage of my wine at Costco. They are ahumongous retailer, so their prices are impossible to beat, and they have discriminating buyers, so you can always be sure of getting a great value/price ratio. They have also been having negotiants private label wine for them under their "Kirkland" brand, and have issued such iconic wines as Chateauneuf du Pape, Brunello di Montalcino, and Margaux as well as newer "icons" such as Oregon Pinot Noir, Napa Cabernet, and Australian Shiraz. They typically cost less than 2/3 of what you would expect to pay for the name brand versions, and I haven't been disappointed in any of them.


Dean, I was interested in your comment that "the few who can taste it" can taste Kit Taste only in WE wines. Although I've been working on "developing my palate" [drinking lots of wine] for forty years, I've always considered myself to have an adequate, but not particularly finely tuned palate. Is this WE "Kit taste" phenomenon widely known in Canada? For me and my two sons in law [they're also "wine bozos"], it's hard to miss.

 

[masta]

Although I've been working on "developing my palate" [drinking lots of wine] for forty years, I've always considered myself to have an adequate, but not particularly finely tuned palate. Is this WE "Kit taste" phenomenon widely known in Canada? For me and my two sons in law [they're also "wine bozos"], it's hard to miss.

It may be widely known in Canada and the US but Winexpert produces and sells wine kits equivalent to over 25 million bottles of finished wine every year.

 

[rexmor]

Masta, I'm nottrying to implythat WE doesn'tmake a product that a lot of people enjoy. I'm trying to determine whether the odd taste I [and apparently others] have detected in young WE redsis something which will age out.
As I stated above, it's common to all the WE reds I've made, and definitely different from anything I've tasted in barrel tastings ofyoung commercial wines. What I inferred from Dean's message is that at least some size body of people have also noted it in young WE wines.
I realize that part of this is expectations....."Two Buck" Charles Shaw sells a lot more than 25 million bottles a year, but it's not something I enjoy.

 

[masta]

I do believe the "odd taste" will age out from what I have read and the lack of patience with many home wine makers is the "root cause" of why their wines don't meet their expectations.

 

[Beachdragon007]

Here's what I found on the "KT" issue.
KT is a sweet, candylike taste/smell which is thought to originate from nonfermentable sugars formed during the process of pasteurization and concentration of grape juice for kits. It has been described as "like grape Jolly Ranchers". There is a wide range in the perception of KT. Some people say it doesn't exist. Some find it in most every kit. It seems to be that some are sensitive to it, some are not.




Some people say that adding raisins during fermentation diminishes it. It is said to fade and eventually disappear with aging, and barrel aging is said to knock it out quickly.


I don't believe that it really gets knocked out, but it probably gets covered up by the oak.



It's possible thatit is a product of the effect on the grape sugars caused by the pasteurization, concetration andextraction processes thatkits undergo.

Biologists tell me yeast doen not digest some long chain complex sugars, like those resulting from concentration / pasteurization.

Maybe kits with grape skins reduce the impact of the KT by reducing the complex chains to begin with.


Another possibility is furaneol. In addition to being perceived as cotton-candy and caramel, it is a taste component of strawberries (it is also known as strawberry furanone). It also occurs naturally in many hybrid grapes. (If it forms in kit production, it would have to be an artifact, since we start with vinifera grapes.) But here's the interesting part: "The influence of the vinification method on furaneol levels has been studied. In all cases, vinification with skin contact leads to a decrease in furaneol concentrations."
(http://www.ajevonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/2/181)



Someone posted that Stavin Hungarian oak cubes at 2 oz per 6 gal. carboy for 3 months would correct.


<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><O></O>Edited by: Beachdragon007

 

[rexmor]

Beachdragon, I don't know where you found that information, but it would answer every question I had, and why others here haven't noticed it. Apparently, I'm one of the"lucky" ones who is sensitive to it. [I'm also "lucky" enough to be color blind, I wonder if there's any connection? LOL].
That description "grape jolly ranchers" would definitely fit what I have been calling a "candied or preserved fruit" taste.
Now I have a lot more faith in the future of my red WE kits. Thanks!!

 

[Mharris335]

I have only made one red kit so far and I would say the taste is very
Jolly Rachers right now. But it's only been 1 month or so now, so
I am hoping that it does not stay that way. I think adding some
oak will help the wine some.

 

[Dean]

I'm one of the sensitive ones too Rexmor, but I'm not color blind. LOL. Great find on the KT information BeachDragon! I think it might have to do with the way that WE concentrates their product. I've not really noticed it with other manufacturers, but then again, I mostly do grape skin kits, and the occaisional limited edition red, but those are based on purer varietal concentrates. I agree that oak would tend to hide it.

It really does age out, but it does take close to 18 months for that to happen.

 

[rexmor]

Thanks, Dean. My next batch is one of the MM All Juice products, so if the theory that this is a phenomenon arising from the concentrating process is true, I shouldn't have a problem.

Also, I think I'll add some oak cubes to the carboys I have bulk aging. Fortunately, I split all the kits I made in two, and bottled half and left half to bulk age in 3 gallon carboys. Edited by: rexmor

 

[rexmor]

Hey, Dean, I cracked open my Crushendo Super Tuscan to try it out for "kit taste", and it was not noticeable. Also, even though it's only six months old, it's pretty damn good already.
Thanks for the advice.
If Beach Dragon ever comes back on, I'd still like to find out where he found that information about "kit taste".

 

[Beachdragon007]

Two or three locations for the taste research. I think one was winepress.