WineXpert Topping

[Bob007]

Newbie here, so ad I progress through this kit I'm trying to anticipate questions I might have.

There are no clear directions on topping the carboy after racking during the process, except not topping with water at a certain point .

Do you recommend topping with water at all?

How much room is recommended to prevent oxidation?

Should I top off with a similar wine to keep the carboy adequately filled at each stage of the process? I purchased a Stags Leap Merlot at $40 to see what this wine might taste like....so I don't think that's going to happen.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[vernsgal]

Hi Bob, you definitely want to top up when you rack,unless you rack early (before fermentation is done ie 1.020) If you're racking when dry you want to top to about 1 inch from the bottom of your bung. Wine is the preference for top ups. If working with a kit, some allow in their concentrates for water top up. I was told from someone at wine experts that they top with water up to 1 cup per racking,( 2 total) otherwise they use a wine.
Hope that helps

 

[HenryMae]

All my reading recommends topping up with a similar wine. I'm also a novice but I've read A LOT.

 

[djrockinsteve]

Hey Bob there is a tutorial section on home page. Many of your questions can be answered there.

 

[sour_grapes]

As others have said, top up with a similar wine. I mean a vaguely similar wine. For the amount you will be adding, the percentage will be so small as to be imperceptible. Just use a $6-$10 bottle.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I used to keep some inexpensive commercial wine in the house, something like a Merlot is fairly generic, it won't change the way a wine tastes, but the first thing we should address is how much are you topping off? If you have to top off enough to use a bottle of wine, you need to be looking at a smaller carboy.
You can use water, once again, if you have to add so much that it dilutes the wine, you need to rack down.
Once you've been making wine for a little while, you'll start to have enough wine to top off with your own wine.
I wouldn't use a $40 bottle of wine, some may argue this point, but I'd buy a box of Merlot to use a top off wine.

 

[Putterrr]

WE changed their instructions and don't recommend topping up if you follow the directions. The new brew on site here use the new instructions but also tell customers they will get 29 bottles and not 30. If you are going to bulk age, then you will need to use one of the suggestions above to reduce the head space

cheers

 

[wineh]

more care racking

The first WE kit that contained the "don't top up" instruction was the LE2012 Nebbiolo. As WE released their "new and improved" versions, the top up instruction disappeared, but the "don't top up" instruction was not included. I have been making WE products for a long time, and was skeptical when the changes were introduced. In a series of emails that I had with Tim Vandergrift, I learned that people were getting sloppy with racking and topping up with as much a 2 liters of water at stages 3 and 4. As I was using over half a liter of water at stage 3, and most of a bottle of wine at stage 4, I decided more diligence was required on my part.
Since that discussion with Tim, I have used much more dilligence in racking from the primary (get everything that will go through the racking cane including some goo). In the case of grapeskin kits (I have a stag's leap district Merlot resting and an LE2012 Nebbiolo that I just racked from the primary), I have been reserving 1/2 bottle of wine just to leave enough room in the carboy for additions and stirring at stage 3. In fact, the Stag's Leap Merlot was full at the end of stage 3 when I added the reserve back. After racking off the sediment (stage 4) I topped up with 1/2 bottle of Merlot from the previous batch to get a full carboy.
You should note that there is still a "top up" instruction, but it is located in stage 5, bottling. It states that if you're going to bulk age, you'd better top off with a similar wine. I just use that instruction in stage 4, as I'm going to be bulk aging anyway. (the on premise guys don't bulk age as they want to get more kits going)
By the way, if you have a full carboy on bottling day, you should get 31 bottles (or really close) as carboys are usually slightly larger than 23 liters, and 30 bottles is only 22.5 liters. The only reason you should get less than 30 bottles is if you filter.

 

[Elmer]

I just completed instruction #4 on my WE Selection Piniot Noir.
I did not top up until after instruction #4.
According to the nice women on the phone from WineXpert you do not need to top up during the clearing phase (prior to instruction #4).
After that I went off direction, topped off and aged!

 

[adambaum]

I disagree with the previous responses. A few of the kit manufacturers have recently modified their kits and now say NOT to top off. If you are unsure, contact the manufacturer tech support.

Adam

 

[adambaum]

Ok, for some reason this updated iPad app was only showing me a few of the responses. After imposter my reply, the other replies showed up. I see others have provided a more detailed explanation of the recent changes.

Adam

 

[vernsgal]

I just completed instruction #4 on my WE Selection Piniot Noir.
I did not top up until after instruction #4.
According to the nice women on the phone from WineXpert you do not need to top up during the clearing phase (prior to instruction #4).
After that I went off direction, topped off and aged!

Elmer is right with the wine expert kits. They say 14 days is ok to go without topping up ( step 4 racking/clarification ,) then bottle.i But if you want to leave in carboy longer though you should top up then.
I also checked with Spagnol's and you definitely have to top up after degassing on step 8.They say with water to 2 inches below bung.( I use wine myself or rack down if I'm short a lot.
You always have to top up after fermentation is done though whether it's a kit,pail or fruit to(help) stop the wine from oxidizing

If indecisive about it I recommend calling the manufacturer of the kit you're doing.

 

[Elmer]

I should also mention that in my current, single experience with WE kit,
that it will be NOWHERE near as "quite clear" as the directions indicate after step #4.

I am a week away from step #4 and I still have visible sediment dropping from all parts of the carboy.

I have spoken to others about WE kits and they have assured me a little old fashioned time will give it a good clearing!

Best of luck to you!

 

[wineh]

Elmer,
Sent you a PM.

 

[Bob007]

Step four today with my Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot...racking and clarifying. I only have one carboy, so I racked into the primary bucket, stirred for about 5 minutes, no bubbles whatsoever, and then racked back into the carboy. Instructions say "do not top with water, as it will change the character of your wine...your wine will not oxidize or spoil during the time remaining to bottling...Leave wine 28 days to finish clarifying."

I attached a photo to show how much space is at the top of the carboy. I transferred, at each step, as much wine as possible...sometimes allowing a little bit of sediment to come through the hose. I'm thinking I'm should just follow instructions and leave it as is. There were Star San bubbles in the carboy when I racked the wine into it. Wondering if that adds some protection from oxidation?

What do you guys think? Is that too much room...top off with similar wine? Or leave it, as the instructions say.

BTW, snuck about 5oz out and this is so good I could drink it now. Dry, with the amount of fruit we love in a wine, not tannic or bitter at all. This is going to be great a few months out.

Appreciate any feedback,

Bob

 

[Elmer]

Step four today with my Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot...racking and clarifying. I only have one carboy, so I racked into the primary bucket, stirred for about 5 minutes, no bubbles whatsoever, and then racked back into the carboy. Instructions say "do not top with water, as it will change the character of your wine...your wine will not oxidize or spoil during the time remaining to bottling...Leave wine 28 days to finish clarifying."

I attached a photo to show how much space is at the top of the carboy. I transferred, at each step, as much wine as possible...sometimes allowing a little bit of sediment to come through the hose. I'm thinking I'm should just follow instructions and leave it as is. There were Star San bubbles in the carboy when I racked the wine into it. Wondering if that adds some protection from oxidation?

What do you guys think? Is that too much room...top off with similar wine? Or leave it, as the instructions say.

BTW, snuck about 5oz out and this is so good I could drink it now. Dry, with the amount of fruit we love in a wine, not tannic or bitter at all. This is going to be great a few months out.

Appreciate any feedback,

Bob

View attachment 13339

I would rack down or top up if you are going to leave it any longer than a couple of weeks.

With my WE pinot kit. I let it clear for a week, racked, topped up and it still continued to clear while it was bulk aging!

 

[wineh]

Bob,
Even though it is likely ok to leave as is, I would top up with a similar wine (any Merlot would likely do the trick, but a Napa valley Merlot ($) would be best). Although looks can be deceiving, it looks to me as though it might actually take more than a bottle. If that is the case, you may want to recheck your 23l (6 gal) line in your primary and or carry a bit more "stuff" during racking. (and quit stealing)

 

[DirtyDawg10]

I would definitely top it up with a similar wine.

 

[Elmer]

Bob,
Even though it is likely ok to leave as is, I would top up with a similar wine (any Merlot would likely do the trick, but a Napa valley Merlot ($) would be best). Although looks can be deceiving, it looks to me as though it might actually take more than a bottle. If that is the case, you may want to recheck your 23l (6 gal) line in your primary and or carry a bit more "stuff" during racking. (and quit stealing)

That is going to take 3 to 4 bottles to top up.
I can vouch for the volume issues with WE.
Even though you start with 6 gallon in primary, you lose a bunch of volume during the clearing phase, the sediment is usually atleast an inch thick at the bottom.
I had the same issue, expecially when you rack into a 6.5 gallon carboy (which is why I went out and bought a 5 gallong and a 1/2 gallong carboy, for my next WE kit)

 

[Bob007]

Thanks everyone. The overwhelming advice seems to be to top it up or rack down. I don't have any smaller carboys so I guess I'm topping up. Our favorite everyday drinking wine right now is a blend called Dialed In, so I'm thinking about adding a few bottles of that....but weighing it against staying with a Merlot. Not sure, with the volume, if it will even make a noticeable difference.