Treatise on Winemaking

[Dean]

Well said Jim. You and I have a very different palate. I'm not so keen on the Mollydooker wines, but I do echo your sentiment on Yellow Tail! I find Two Hands quite overpriced here in Canada, although it is quite nice. Glaetzer is also okay, but I find they frequently over-extract and come out too jammy for me. Again, your palate versus mine.

I also like really old world wines that can contain quite a bit of funk (read that as barnyard) that most people would hate. I'm totally enamoured with Rhone Reds, as well as simple table wines from Italy.

I applaud your efforts to articulate yourself. It truly is all about the journey.

 

[Runningwolf]

Anyone else feel kinda like "why am I bothering" after reading Jim's post?

I sure did......

I look at it like this.... There is no reason I can't make wine just as good as someone else, They are just people too... It may take me some time, as it probably took them some time.


But, for me it's not only about that.Wine making issomething that I can use to consume my mind when I am bored. It's something I enjoy watching someone's reaction and excitement when I tell them I make wine, or tell them more about how wine is made. for me it's not just about drinking the wine... it's about using imagination to create labels, it's the decor of the equipment in the house (barrels, ect.), I even made a website for my winemaking hobby. It's all the extras that surround wine making that i am enjoying just as much as a glass of good wine!!!


Don't be discouraged, just love what you do, and it will show in your wine.

Hey Goodfella I would be interested in see your website if you're sharing it.

 

[admiral]

I read an article last spring that discussed the idea of your "wine-self." This is the idea that each of us has come to where we are today by different paths. Those paths are the reason we like the wine we like. My preference and appreciation of wine is entirely my own. I look at taste tests by some writers and I disagree with them entirely. I read others and find that I agree with them. None of the writers are wrong. I just find that my "wine-self" agrees with some and not others.

Wine is art. I prefer some art and some I don't care for. Same with wine. I have also discovered that my taste has evolved and is evolving. That is why I like wine. It is not static. I love the history. I love the science. I have come to appreciate the human effort that goes into it. I am excited that some of my wines taste as good as they do.

Jim, thanks for getting us thinking.

 

[ASAI]

Guess I am really fortunate. Since my cheapness limits me to $5/bottle or less from Wal Mart Commercial Wines. I CAN DEFINATELY say every kit I have made in significantly better than commercial wines.

 

[rhoffart]

Guess I am really fortunate. Since my cheapness limits me to $5/bottle or less from Wal Mart Commercial Wines. I CAN DEFINATELY say every kit I have made in significantly better than commercial wines.

I like it ...

 

[Joanie]

Jim, you've given me a headache from all this thinking! =)

 

[JimCook]

And yet, even with all this thinking, perhaps something was accomplished. Fritz, I'm heading to Disney World. I'll see all of you in a week.


Have a great Thanksgiving,


- Jim

 

[Runningwolf]

So...I just dropped off three bottles of wine (different kinds) to several very unsuspecting friends this morning. They were all kit wines. I wonder what kind of value they put on those bottles compared to a comercial one they may have bought. Like some other posts I can only compare my wines to most commercial wines that cost less than $10.00 and I know mine are every bit as good or better. The best part though is that I made them with the help and support of everyone on this forum. Thank you and Happy Thankgiving!

 

[Waldo]

Anyone else feel kinda like "why am I bothering" after reading Jim's post?

I sure did......

Since I have made nothing but the premium kits my stuff better not taste like "watered down wine" next Summer or there will be a load of carboys for sale on craigslist......

My little taste test when racking certainly don't taste watered down in the least, only green.

I have been enjoying this new hobby/obsession since July and the thought that I can't produce something comparable to ANY type of commercial wine is downright hard to handle at the moment.

ibglowin you are onto one of the premier successes of winemaking...

"my stuff better not taste like "watered down wine" next Summer "
You are waiting, giving your wine a chance to mature and develop and only in that enviroment can you ever know "What could have been"

 

[joeswine]

HI people,I think that each of us as wine makers has to take our own trip down wino lane and descover what works best for each individual ,i myself started out with kits and shifted over to fresh juice from all over ,then made a left turn and started adding fresh grapes to fresh juice and thento all grapes using all the pro tools atmy desposal,i never set a direction at the beginning of the wine making season, because there is no season anymore it is year around and joy to that ,so between kits or fresh juice ,grape additions to the juice or just grapes not even mentioning fresh fruit and herbs, joy to the wine maker,I do say that kits don't revile the true taste of those they try to reperesent,(they are simullations,in the syle of) and nor do i believe all the time when we buy fresh juice are we getting what we are truly paying for ,in a nut shell you make in any format and if you like it thats good wine if on the other hand others think you product is good than thats even better,,,,,,,,,happy holidays alll..................................

 

[Milwood]

First I have to say that ibglowin's Star Wars reference made me laugh out loud. With that being said, I agree with a lot of the things that Jim has said. You can make exceptional white wines from kits. Even the lower end kits can make truly enjoyable white wines. When it comes to reds, in my opinion or according to my tastes, there is simply no substitute for skin contact. I have made kits for a few years but this year the club I am in sourced grapes from California. I purchased 100 lb. of Cabernet Sauvignon and 100 lb. of Zinfandel. I started these wines on 10/12 and already they are better than any of the kits I have made. With that being said I absolutlely love the Cellar Craft kits with the grape packs. I bottled the Cab Sauv Reserve 5-week kit in late May and it is really good. I even like it better than the MM AJ Shiraz kit that was bottled in July 2008 although my friends have said good things about this wine too. I think this points to the fact that I like the tannins and mouthfeel that you get from direct contact with the skins. This is simply my taste. There are guys in my wine club who have been making wine for far longer than I who prefer to limit skin contact even for the Cabs, Merlots and Zins. It really all depends on the style of wines that you like to drink. One of my friends has made very good wines by adding previously fermented fresh crushed grapes to a kit. I haven't had the opportunity to try this yet but I know the results can be positive. I have read many articles by Tim at Winexpert talking about experimenting with kit wines. If you find that the kits are not giving you what you really want, play around a little. Obviously there are warranty issues that this will affect but if you don't mind then it won't matter. I think I will try to add some tannins and maybe even raisins to the next red kit I make just to see what happens. Keep good notes and you never know, you may come up with something special. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

 

[admiral]

I served a young Pinot Noir today to my family members and I got surprised looks and statements such as, "This is wonderful," "I can't believe you made this," and "Can I buy a case." Price of kit, $130. Price per bottle, about $5.50. Affirmations? ... priceless! I love my obsession.

 

[Goodfella]

That is sweet!!! I am excited to hear that. I hope for similar reveiws next year.

 

[uavwmn]

And that my friend, is what it is all about...

 

[PeterZ]

Jim's discussions have indicated to me that his palate is far more developed than mine. I also do not have his wide range of experience in tasting wine. This I consider to be to my advantage, as I am able to completely enjoy the wines I have made.

 

[ibglowin]

Finally someone got my joke! Nothing like hearing the crickets chirp for the last 2 days!

First I have to say that ibglowin's Star Wars reference made me laugh out loud.

 

[grapeman]

Wow, I hadn't checked in on this post in a few days. There is a lot of in depth philosophical thinking going on here. We really do all have our own tastes and as long as we enjoy what we are drinking, that's the important thing.

 

[Big Ike]

Finally someone got my joke! Nothing like hearing the crickets chirp for the last 2 days!

Mike,

Sorry to leave you hangin'. I, too, laughed out loud when I read the post! Just haven't had time to add my $.02.

Overall, I think that Rich got it right above me, as long as we enjoy what we are making and drinking - great.

Jim and JW (only through their posts) got me into experimenting on my fourth kit. Unfortunately, I really won't know the results of the experiments for a while as I always fail to do a control batch - hate to waste the juice!

I'm looking forward to doing some more kits, some more fresh juice and some grapes next season. I may even try the frozen grapes just to make sure I've got all the right tools.

Anybody heard from JW lately?

 

[Scott B]

Thanks Rich for your post. It makes me feel better about the kits I have done. It will be 4 months before my first Big Reds will be a year old. Cannot wait to see how it turns out. At 6 month they tasted very good to me. But I am not a wine expert, just an east Texas Bubba who likes the hobby.

 

[joeswine]

good point has any one heard from JW or tommy?