trying fresh grapes, help please

[Coaster]

A friend is giving me about 125 pounds of grapes, I don't know what kind yet but it's likely they are mustang. Any idea how many gallons that might be? Any tips (add sugar to at least 1.090, adjust acid to x, leave on skins for x days, etc)? I assume I destem and crush only the berries? I'll update with more info when I have the grapes (sometime this week). Edited by: Coaster

 

[gaudet]

Rough estimate 1 pound per pint, 8 pints to a gallon, 15.63 gallons of grapes at minimal. My best guess...............

 

[grapeman]

First off I know nothing about Mustang grapes so I checked Jack Keller's site and came up with the following to help you out. It sounds like you would have enough grapes to do up several large batches of wine there since they need a lot of dilution.
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/mustang.asp

 

[joeswine]

normally 5 boxs 0f grapes at 18lbs. per box equials 6 gallons of pure juice after pressing,plus 1 lb. of sugar per gallon of liquid adjusted to what ever your needs are,or to your sg.level rule of thunb on the sugar easy to remember that way.

 

[Coaster]

Ok they are not Mustang but he doesn't know the type. He says small 1/2" berries, dark blue, in a traditional grape cluster (upside down triangle). I'll post a pic after I get them on Sat.

 

[Coaster]

What is going to be the best way to crush these? Should I freeze them in zip loks first (I don't think so but may have to freeze some due to the fact I only have a 10 gal primary). Should I crush them in my 7.9 gal with a board or potato masher and let the free run fill up the 10 gal primary until I get 6 gal of must, then put the skins in. Should I "cold soak" before fermentation?






Sorry small panic attack. I'll get the grapes Sat morning then get anythingI need but don't have and plan on crushing Sat afternoon. I'm very comfortable with kits and knew I'd move into grapes at some point just didn't realize it would sneak up on me so quickly.

 

[grapeman]

The easiest way to crush a small batch like this is the traditional method used thoughout time. Don't laugh now, but put the grapes in the 10 gallon bucket in the bathtub. Wash your feet and squash away. If you spill any, they are in the tub and when you have then thorough squashed you are in a good spot to rinse your feet off. The only thing is if you really do get 125 pounds, that will yield 8 or 9 gallons of juice- more must. If you don't have a press,your yield will be less. You might want to ferment on the skins to extract more colors and it helps get the juices to yield better. If you do ferment on the skins, pick all the stems out you can- they make it too tannic if left in too long.


Have fun.

 

[Coaster]

I assume I need to add K-meta to the must as well as pectic enzyme 24 hours before fermentation?

 

[Coaster]

OK the guys at the local shop agree they are Black Spanish grapes, used to make port style wine in the Central Texas Area. I will get a picture up soon. Heading out to start crushing/de-steming.

 

[grapeman]

Sorry I missed the previous post Coaster- Yes add the k-meta and pectic enzyme. Here is a recipe for Black Spanish listed by Jack Keller. I sounds pretty good.


http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request197.asp


Good luck with it. How did you decide to crush?

 

[Coaster]

Bucket 1 of 2

Close up of grapes (more like big blueberries than grapes

6.5 gals of Must

 

[Coaster]

I crushed half of them today. Turns out that is 70 pounds. I thought "No Problem", I'll destem and hand crush them. That lasted about 2 gals. Then I de-stemed (had help from wife and kids) into a 18 tub. At this point I was really close to foot stomping them but ended up using a clean board from the garage (that what the guy who gave them to me does).


I will add pectic and .5 grams K-Meta tonight and crush the rest tomorrow.


70 pounds
6.5 gals of must
cooling at 50 deg in the wine cellar for the night
SG 1.092
acid .9
PH 3.8


Any suggestion at this point would greatly be appreciated.

 

[grapeman]

It is a lot of work destemming and crushing by hand. Those grapes look like they will make some good wine. Are your number good and accurate Coaster? I specifically wonder about the pH. Do you have a meter or are you using paper strips? If it is the meter, I might try to add tartaric acid to drop the pH down to the low to mid 3's. What does the must taste like? Sweet, or does it have a bit of a bite?

 

[Coaster]

The numbers are from strips. I have a meter but I went to cal it and I adjusted the seven screw while in the 4.01 solution and I don't have any more cal solution. The must is sweet like grape juice from the store, a little tangy butI didn't pucker up. I could put dry ice on it today and cold soak one more day while I get solution tomorrow (it's in he cellar at 55 right now with 5 pounds of dry ice added last night).

 

[grapeman]

I would try the pH again with the meter tomorrow. Even if it starts fermenting, I think you could get a fairly accurate reading and make adjustments then if needed. I suspect it will be in an alright range though since you used the strips and they aren't very accurate in dark reds.

 

[Coaster]

Ok this doesn't make sense but I did the tests twice.


pH 3.45 per the meter
TA is 18


I used the following formula TA = (75 x 0.2 x 12) / 10


Where 75 is the constant, 0.2 is strength of the solution, 12ml is the amount of solution used, and 10ml is the size of the sample.


If that is true, I suppose I should consider MLF, yes?Edited by: Coaster

 

[grapeman]

The TA is in line with native grapes. Black Spanish was made with a cross using them, so the number is probably right. Like I said, I know nothing specifically about them, but any of those varieties tend to be acidic. That is even higher than Frontenac which is very high in TA also of about 14-15. You could cut it with water some and add sugar or use all the acid reducers available, such as calcium carbonate, cold stabilizing, and MLF. Check to make sure you got the right formula for your kit.

 

[Coaster]

Thanks Appleman. I don't have a kit so just thepieces from a store. The solution is new and the formula is off the net.


If I add 1 gal of water my back of the envelop calcs say add 2 pounds of sugar to offset, sound about right?


I've read a little about MLF, but is there a thread I can go read about how I should do it?


Must is at 78F, SG is 1.080. 8 gals in a 10 gal bucket and 5 gals in a 7.9 gal bucket.Edited by: Coaster

 

[Coaster]

Assuming I want to split part of the batch for a port base, if I feed it sugar during fermentation the eventual alcohol will be high enough to prevent MLF in that small batch? I'll want to sweeten and sorbate it, will I be at risk for the bad geranium smell (spontaneous MLF) in the bottle?

 

[grapeman]

The sugar is about right per gallon.


I have seen that formula before and it doesn't seem to give correct values. A simplified formula used by manufacturers is simply
Multiply the amount of cc's used by .075 to obtain the Total Acidity in your case: 12 x .075 = .9 (equal to 9 your way) and not bad. Desireable for a red is 0.60 - 0.80. So you aren't far off.
Edit: this is in line with your original reading of .9 so it is probably right. Someday they will come up with a foolproof method for this. If the must isn't pucker your mouth sour like straight cranberry juice, it wouldn't be 1.8 or 18(depends on the way it is expressed)


Adding the waterwill cut it a little. You could cut a bit more but you don't want to dilute the flavor and body too much. If you use the MLF culture George carries it is real easy. It comes in a vial and is added to the wine after secondary or late ferment. You CANNOT stabilize and add much k-meta before starting it, since they will kill it and MLF won't happen. Keep temps above 75 while doing MLF. Also the MLF bacteria need something to feed on, so don't rack before adding it at the end of secondary. The process creates very small bubbles slowly rising when it starts. If you take the airlock out and listen, it sounds like rice crispies. It will take a couple months to complete. At that time you shouldn't hear any more activity. You may then add the k-meta and sorbate to prevent it from beginning again on it's own(not likely).


You could also try some calcium carbonate or potassium bicarbonate before using MLF. Then you could also cold stabilize. It is a lot of work to use these high acid grapes and in the end you may even need to slightly sweeten.


I realize I am skimming over all these things- I just don't have much time right now for a more complete answer. You have some time for most of these things.Edited by: appleman