trying fresh grapes, help please

[grapeman]

Assuming I want to split part of the batch for a port base, if I feed it sugar during fermentation the eventual alcohol will be high enough to prevent MLF in that small batch? I'll want to sweeten and sorbate it, will I be at risk for the bad geranium smell (spontaneous MLF) in the bottle?

For the port style, if you keep feeding it sugar, it will eventually kill the yeast and you will have some residual sugar to sweeten it already some. The k-meta before the sorbate will prevent MLF which you shouldn't need if sweetening anyway. Once the k-meta is in, add the sorbate and sweeten to taste.

 

[Coaster]

I think that simplified formula assumes you have 0.1N solution and I have 0.2N but I am not certain on that. I don't think it's cranberry tart but I do like sweetarts 8O).


OK, not sure if I am going to split the batch, depends on the amount of juice I get from the 12 gals of must. This stuff is thick like pea soup so I know I am going to have to press somehow. This is my current plan:


press and rack to carboys with airlocks at ~1.010


For the wine:
allow to ferment dry under airlock
add MLF culture
store at room temp for weeks/months (is there a kit to check MLF completeness?) This will be on the fine lees, I assume that is ok?
rack at completion, stabilize, fine/allow to clear
cold stabilize if I can
bulk age
bottle


For the Port base
Feed sugar until fermentation stops.
Rack, add k-meta
after some period of time
sorbate and allow to clear
sweeten, fortify
bulk age
bottle


Any obvious gaps?Edited by: Coaster

 

[grapeman]

That looks pretty complete Coaster.


What solution % was the first test you did? I still think that one was pretty close. I wouldn't worry too much about acid at this point. I think you are fine. If it had been that high you would really pucker up and remember you described it as sweet. When I use Frontenac and the TA is about 15 (1.5), it will really pucker your mouth. That takes a lot of work to get down and still can be very acidic when done.


As for a MLF test- Accuvin has a Malic acid test. If Malic acid is depleted, then it is likely done. There is also a chromatography test, but much more complicated and expensive.


Edit:Another thought on the acid- is there a vineyard or winery close by that uses the Black Spanish? If so you could ask them what the general range is for brix and TA numbers. If they say 15-20 TA, then the 18 would probably be right. If they say 8-10, then the 9 would be more likely.Edited by: appleman

 

[Coaster]

The first TA test was an Accuvin test, but it was over a year old.


The SG tonite is 1.020 and now I can taste the cranberry tartness. So it's high, I guess the sweetness masked it ealier. I also emailed a local winery with a port from Black Spanish grapes and hope they reply.


The more I read on Black Spanish the more I read about them as a port grape. Looks like at this rate I will have to press tomorrow night and make a choice on how much is going to be port base.

 

[grapeman]

Good luck Coaster. A port made from it sounds real good. What type of flavor does the Black Spanish have? Any descriptors will suffice. What did you decide on in the end to press with?


It must be warm there to ferment that quickly. I have also read they have really good color and are used to pigment lighter wines.

 

[Coaster]

I'll need more time for a better description but I'll start with "grapy". It's bursting with flavor but my limited palate can only compare it to really heavy grape juice for now. The juice is dark dark red when crushed. Of course, I didn't think it was high in acid either

.


I am going to use small, fine mesh bags with draw strings and hand press. I'll let you know how that goes.

Yesterday it cooled down to the high 90's. Before that we've hand numerous days over 100 including a 106 and 104 back to back. The house is at 77. The must is in the low 80's.

 

[grapeman]

Youch, that's warm. I like cool, but we really could use some summer before summer is over. Today it got up to about 75 and we only got .26 inches of rain here. A few miles away, they got 3 inches of rain. Very bizarre weather and hard on the grapes. With all this bad weather we have actually reached veraison on some varieties.


Have you checked any LHBS to see if they rent a press? If you are close to George, he might rent you one to use- or bring your must there to press.?

 

[Coaster]

Yeah My LHBS has a fruit press but they dont want me using it for grapes. George is three hours away, but I'd have to move the must in the wifes van 8O).

 

[Coaster]

I received a reply from the local winery and they stated that a TA of 1.8% was quite normal for the grapes.

 

[Wade E]

Why wouldnt they want you using it for grapes? Seems weird to me.

 

[grapeman]

That is a very high TA indeed. Frontenac is an acid monster and the TA on it is only 14-15. Hope you can tame the beast! Lots of Port might be in the making! Good luck with the hand pressing. Even if you lose some, it didn't cost much so good luck!

 

[Coaster]

I'm not certain why, I was going to press with a fine mesh bag but they were kinda down on the idea.
From 12.5 gals of must, I got about 7.5 gals of free run and another 1.5 from the hand crush. I know I left some behind but it is what it is.


I upped the sg from 1.002 to 1.012 for the 6 gals of port base and I added the MLF culture to the 3 gals of dry wine, hope that isn't too soon. Everything is under cover and airlock now.


I'd like to thank you all, especially Appleman for the help this far.

 

[Coaster]

The dry wine is going through MLF but the carboy has a handful of seeds (10-12) and skins in it from racking. Do I leave it alone, stir up the lees and rack, or just rack?

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

Coaster are you doing mlf before regular fermentation?


Ahhh, I think just a very fast ferment!Edited by: JWMINNESOTA

 

[grapeman]

Coaster with the MLF it is good to mix it slightly. Generally just give it a little swirl every day or so for a week or two. This helps giv them a bit more exposure to the fine lees you introduced into it at the racking. A gentle rocking of the carboy is usually enough.

 

[Coaster]

Yes, it's warm here so fermentation is fast (highest temp of mustwas low 80's at day 4). I added the MLF culture at an SG of 1.002.


I will mix it slightly, do I need to get out the seeds and bits of skin?Edited by: Coaster

 

[grapeman]

How many seeds and skin are in it? A few won't hurt anything, but if you have like a cupful, then they probably should be racked off.

 

[Coaster]

10-12 of each (seeds and skins).

 

[grapeman]

I don't think that is enough to worry about. You won't get that many tannins out of that few seeds.

 

[joeswine]

instead of press how about rough blending that will get you there with out to much effort and then your pressing is made easier,a lot of the juice is already done or blenderize all the way then ferment and finish with a litter crush.