Other Tweaking Cellar Master (Low End Kits)

[sluff]

I have only been doing high end kits (RJS Premier, FWK, etc.) kits over the last 4 years. Since I age them for 2 years before consumption, I have picked up a few of the low end "Cellar Master" (Cosco) kits to build up some stock. I currently have their Cabernet and Merlot kits. I am looking for very specific ideas on what I can do (process, additives, etc.) to create a better product. I will add water to only 5 gallons. Thoughts? - oak, tannins, grape skins/seeds (anyone have a good source for this). Thanks in advance!!

 

[vinny]

There are a few different threads on that here. Flavor packs, chaptalizing, oak, raisins, currants, tannin, fruit, juice... the options are pretty wide open.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/tweeking-cheap-kits.51904/

 

[Khristyjeff]

I have only been doing high end kits (RJS Premier, FWK, etc.) kits over the last 4 years. Since I age them for 2 years before consumption, I have picked up a few of the low end "Cellar Master" (Cosco) kits to build up some stock. I currently have their Cabernet and Merlot kits. I am looking for very specific ideas on what I can do (process, additives, etc.) to create a better product. I will add water to only 5 gallons. Thoughts? - oak, tannins, grape skins/seeds (anyone have a good source for this). Thanks in advance!!

Do these kits come just with juice and the usual chemical packets, or do they also contain oak or tannins packets?

 

[sluff]

There are a few different threads on that here. Flavor packs, chaptalizing, oak, raisins, currants, tannin, fruit, juice... the options are pretty wide open.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/tweeking-cheap-kits.51904/

Agree. Had a difficult time finding and sorting through everything out there. Decided to start a new thread to gain specific, detailed suggestions. Thanks!

 

[sluff]

Do these kits come just with juice and the usual chemical packets, or do they also contain oak or tannins packets?

6.3 L Juice, usual additives, and oak powder.

 

[Khristyjeff]

6.3 L Juice, usual additives, and oak powder.

OK. Here are some options. I've tried them and they are good enough that I wanted to repeat.

16 oz. Blackberry f-pac and 1 Cup French Oak chips in Primary; this will result in fruit forward with oak in the background. If you split the oak 1/2 in primary and 1/2 in secondary, then you'll end up with more oak forward. Your choice. I see you plan to short the water to 5 gallon which is my current preference for the Fontana and Wine Lover's kits I've done, but make sure you check with your hydrometer (since it depends on the concentrate) and shoot for a potential ABV of 12- 13%.

A second option that can work on either kit would be to replace the blackberries with 1/2C raisins (or black Zante currants) but not both raisins and blackberries.

You said the Cellar Master is a low end kit. I know Wine Lover's low end is around 7.5% with medium bodied at 11.5% and a high end around 13%. Fontana kits don't distinguish but I believe they are in the middle at 11.5%. If your's is around 7.5% to start with you may need to add some simple syrup or sugar as well as shorting the water to get to an ABV of your liking. As @joeswine always says," let your hydrometer be your guide."
Keep us posted and do check out the "Tweaking Cheap Kits" thread as that's where I learned most of this.

 

[sluff]

Perfect! Thanks!

 

[VinesnBines]

For the Cab, I short the water to 5 or 5.5 gallons. Add a quart of simple syrup to bump the SG (as part of the water), add a cup of Zante currents and a cup of French oak chips to primary. I’ve made this with Fontana and ABC Cork kits. It is a family favorite.

 

[joeswine]

Thinking outside the box is fun and creative fir both the new comer and the old pro

 

[mickbronk]

I have only been doing high end kits (RJS Premier, FWK, etc.) kits over the last 4 years. Since I age them for 2 years before consumption, I have picked up a few of the low end "Cellar Master" (Cosco) kits to build up some stock. I currently have their Cabernet and Merlot kits. I am looking for very specific ideas on what I can do (process, additives, etc.) to create a better product. I will add water to only 5 gallons. Thoughts? - oak, tannins, grape skins/seeds (anyone have a good source for this). Thanks in advance!!

I have used may frozen Merlot skins from last fall and added the to a Cellar Masters Merlot kit. I also did a 5 gallon kit. Used Pectic enzyme, FT Rough, Opti-Red and BDX Yeast with Go-Ferm. After day 1 added Femaid O then after 1/3 brix drop Fermaid K. Going through malolactic fermentation now. Good color and body.
Label peelers for seeds and skins
Morewinemaking for additives.

 

[sluff]

Thanks!! You mention frozen Merlot skins -- are you talking about the FWK skins that Label Peelers sells? I do see all the mentioned additives available at Morewinemaking. Thanks again!

 

[sluff]

OK. Here are some options. I've tried them and they are good enough that I wanted to repeat.

16 oz. Blackberry f-pac and 1 Cup French Oak chips in Primary; this will result in fruit forward with oak in the background. If you split the oak 1/2 in primary and 1/2 in secondary, then you'll end up with more oak forward. Your choice. I see you plan to short the water to 5 gallon which is my current preference for the Fontana and Wine Lover's kits I've done, but make sure you check with your hydrometer (since it depends on the concentrate) and shoot for a potential ABV of 12- 13%.

A second option that can work on either kit would be to replace the blackberries with 1/2C raisins (or black Zante currants) but not both raisins and blackberries.

You said the Cellar Master is a low end kit. I know Wine Lover's low end is around 7.5% with medium bodied at 11.5% and a high end around 13%. Fontana kits don't distinguish but I believe they are in the middle at 11.5%. If your's is around 7.5% to start with you may need to add some simple syrup or sugar as well as shorting the water to get to an ABV of your liking. As @joeswine always says," let your hydrometer be your guide."
Keep us posted and do check out the "Tweaking Cheap Kits" thread as that's where I learned most of this.

Thanks again! Question - where do you source the "Blackberry f-pac?"

 

[Khristyjeff]

Here are my notes on how to make an f-pac. It's @joeswine recipe.


F-Pac Blackberries or other fruit Instructions:


16 ozs. Fresh blackberries


Add 2 Cups of base wine like you’re making; simmer on low


Let cook down then throw into primary





Picture of simmered blackberries—they turn red when cooked

 

[mickbronk]

Thanks!! You mention frozen Merlot skins -- are you talking about the FWK skins that Label Peelers sells? I do see all the mentioned additives available at Morewinemaking. Thanks again!

 

[mickbronk]

I frozen my Merlot grape skins from last falls crush. It does add body and tannins to the woe. Also there is so much yeast in the skins you don’t need to add more yeast. Just some yeast nutrient. What

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I am thinking that the original intent was to create a nice early drinker using a cheap kit. While all these recommendations will surely improve a cheap kit, a lot of these additions will also create complexity and require the wine to age in order to settle down, especially adding tannins via skins. Thus defeating the purpose. IME the only real option is to make more premium kits than you can possibly drink and drink them as you go, eventually you'll be pulling bottles with age on them

 

[sluff]

Here are my notes on how to make an f-pac. It's @joeswine recipe.


F-Pac Blackberries or other fruit Instructions:


16 ozs. Fresh blackberries


Add 2 Cups of base wine like you’re making; simmer on low


Let cook down then throw into primary


View attachment 97836


Picture of simmered blackberries—they turn red when cooked

Thanks!! Bought fresh blackberries tonight.

 

[joeswine]

I am thinking that the original intent was to create a nice early drinker using a cheap kit. While all these recommendations will surely improve a cheap kit, a lot of these additions will also create complexity and require the wine to age in order to settle down, especially adding tannins via skins. Thus defeating the purpose. IME the only real option is to make more premium kits than you can possibly drink and drink them as you go, eventually you'll be pulling bottles with age on them

Not really

 

[joeswine]

Vinco also has a every different grape pac wetter and adds good texture as well as structure