Unidentifed taste issue...

[Truebrew]

I started making wines last March. And, of course, I'm anxious to drink my work. So, I'm now opening some of my wines that were bottled in Sep. and Nov. They smell fine, no off aromas. At first they have a great taste but, some have an aftertaste that I can't identify that I don't care for.

It's not the rotten egg, burnt rubber, plastic or moldy taste. I honestly can't identify what it is. Am I just not waiting long enough before opening?

In some of these I did not use sulfites as the book I used to learn from said that using sulfiltes were optional, especially if you weren't planning to store them for a long time. Since I only made about 5 bottles from each 1 gal. batch, I figured that they really wouldn't last that long. So, no sulfites for the first 5 batches or so. (I've since changed that practice, thanks to this forum.) I've never added a stabilizer, f-pac, or back sweetened, just bottled straight from the secondary after several months and being racked several times.

Just thought I'd ask your opinions on what you think the "off taste" may be, what I may have done wrong and what I need to change.

Thanks!

 

[ibglowin]

First off, we need more info. What is it your drinking exactly!

 

[Truebrew]

Hmmm. Well, so far these are the ones I've tried:

• Fat Nude Raisin: no sugar, all raisin. Husband loved that one but that lingering "off taste" I didn't like.
• Simple Raisin: less raisins, used sugar. Husband didn't like this one as much but I liked it better. He claimed the sugar added a "fusel oil" aftertaste. (We are disputing over the use of sugar, still. Doesn't matter, because I'm the one making the wine and I choose the ingredients!)
• Apple. Sour, but I added some sugar syrup before serving it very cold. Mostly good but there's that aftertaste.
• Apple/Raisin. I really like this one but it does have that aftertaste although it does seem to be a little less. Drinking it very cold seems to be the trick.
• Rice. A little like sake but it also needs a bit of sweetening. I serve it very cold as well but the aftertaste...Maybe I should try it warmed????

Does this list help?
Thanks,
Susan

 

[Truebrew]

Oh, and I forgot the mead. To me, that's really awful. And my husband doesn't like it either....That's saying a lot!

 

[Wade E]

Very sorry to hear about your U.T.I. Id go see a doctor myself before asking here!!! LOL Seriously now, can you give an example of your fermentation, recipe for anyone of thedse wines meaning like do you use nutrient, temps usually fermented at, use of a water bottle instead of glass?

 

[Wade E]

Ooops, You can ignore some of my post as i had to stop in the middle of typing to throw a patch on my back and you answered some of the questions but still leaves a few.

 

[Luc]

First,

Most raisins are heavily sulphited.
Did you rinse them before using ???
Did you soak them before chopping up ???

Some raisins might be oiled. I read that about US raisins, never experienced that over here in Holland. But anyhow if so you should rinse them well in warm water. That might give an aftertaste.

Read my story about raisins that might give you some info.

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2007/11/rozijnen-raisins.html

Next:
How long did you age these wines ???
You might be experiencing drinking a young wine........

What other ingredients did you use.
Post a recipe please that might give more information.

Luc

 

[Minnesotamaker]

It sounds like you have a lot of time invested in wine making that you're not really sure you're enjoying. I think I'd recommend that you get a wine ingredient kit that is more in line with traditional wines. Try making that and then decide if you think it also has this taste. You need a "winner" in your cellar to boost your success. If this wine also has the problem, we can narrow it down to either something in the process or a naturally occurring flavor that you find disagreable.

 

[Wade E]

Sort of like what Lon above is saying here, have you ever tasted this in a commercial wine? Did you make something in any of the vessels you are using that could have stuck with that pce. of equipment? Some wines or beer canhave a lasting effect and pretty much no matter how good you washed the vessel have carry over properties that may last forever or just through a few batches.

 

[Truebrew]

When I first started, I used my husband's beermaking equipment...BUT...it hadn't been used in years. (Since I've started making wine, he's started back up again!! Dang it, his beer is much better than my wine. ) After 1 batch, I got my own dedicated winemaking equipment.

Lon's suggestion of trying a kit is a good one. Practical troubleshooting technique but the first wine I made was a cab kit that turned out terrible due to a number of missteps I made, the main one being that neither my husband nor I realized I used a 6 gal. carboy, thinking it was a 5 gal. and of course, I topped off with that extra gallon of water. The kit had oak chips which way over-powered the diluted wine. It was then that I decided to downscale to 1 gallon batches so that if something turned out bad, it wasn't such an expensive loss. However, I do remember that it did not have the aftertaste that I'm experiencing with my 1 gal batches.

I've been extra careful on cleaning and sanitizing. But, I'm thinking maybe I didn't degass often or long enough. Or, in trying to follow the timeline in my wine making book, I simply didn't let it age long enough. (The book for beginning winemakers focused on time, not SG readings and in fact, the PA was used, not SG. I'm now using SG, recognizing the folly of that method.)

Oh, I just remembered something...when I first started, I didn't have proper sanitizers for winemaking and used bleach to do the sanitation on the first few batches. Could that be it????

 

[winemaker_3352]

It might be the cause of it - i would stay away from using bleach in the future.

Have you taken an acid or SO2 reading? Sometimes high acid or SO2 levels can give an awkward taste to a wine that is at room temp.

 

[Truebrew]

First,

Most raisins are heavily sulphited.
Did you rinse them before using ???
Did you soak them before chopping up ???

Some raisins might be oiled. I read that about US raisins, never experienced that over here in Holland. But anyhow if so you should rinse them well in warm water. That might give an aftertaste.

Read my story about raisins that might give you some info.

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2007/11/rozijnen-raisins.html

Next:
How long did you age these wines ???
You might be experiencing drinking a young wine........

What other ingredients did you use.
Post a recipe please that might give more information.

Luc

As I recall, the label on the raisins simply read "raisins". It didn't mention any preservatives or being oiled. That's why I bought them. In the first recipe, I rinsed them first, then soaked them overnight, then chopped them lightly in a food processor (sanitized) and I used the soak water in the must.

Recipe for one of the raisins:
2 lbs. raisins
2 lbs. sugar
1 tsp. acid blend
1 tsp. yeast nutrient
1/4 tsp tannin
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 packet Montrachet


Other raisin recipe:
7 lbs. raisins (did not soak but rinsed and then chopped lightly in food processor)
3 tsp acid blend
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 packet Premier Cuvee

Both wines were racked at least 3 times before bottling. No sulphites were used in either as the book claimed that was optional.

Both raisin wines (one with sugar and the other just raisins, no added sugar) were started last March and bottled in September. Maybe we were too anxious to drink them and you're right, they're just too young.

Susan

 

[Truebrew]

It might be the cause of it - i would stay away from using bleach in the future.

Have you taken an acid or SO2 reading? Sometimes high acid or SO2 levels can give an awkward taste to a wine that is at room temp.

No, I haven't. I don't have whatever is needed to do that and if I did have it, I confess that I'm not sure I'd know what to do with the results.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Well there are certain TA ranges that are preferred for certain wines - it aids in the flavor.

Dry White Wine
0.65 % - 0.75 %

Sweet White Wine
0.70 % - 0.85 %

Dry Red Wine
0.60 % - 0.70 %

Sweet Red Wine
0.65 % - 0.80 %

Sherry Grape Wines
0.50 % - 0.60 %

Non-grape White Wines
0.55 % - 0.65 %

Non-grape Red Wines
0.50 % - 0.60 %



SO2 levels just help to ensure the proper protection in your wine.

0.5 and 0.8 ppm for proper protection.

 

[Truebrew]

Thanks, Jon.

Now, the all-important question, if the test results are too high or low, what do you do to correct the levels?

 

[Wade E]

If acid is too low you add acid which most use acid blend and its available at any home brew supply. if its too high you either dilute it with water or use calcium carbonate or Acidex to drop out the excess acid, you dont need to test kits. Speaking of kits, what kit did you make and Im guessing a Alexanders concentrate because almost all other kits are 6 gallons. Those Alexanders kits are total trash in my opinion!

 

[Truebrew]

Speaking of kits, what kit did you make and Im guessing a Alexanders concentrate because almost all other kits are 6 gallons. Those Alexanders kits are total trash in my opinion!

I had to go look it up in my log to make sure...It was a Grand Cru Merlot (not a cab as I thought). I ended up using it as a "wine extender" for purchased bottles of wine that turned out to be disappointing. Surprisingly, blending the two improved the taste of both.

 

[robie]

Well, using bleach is not that bad, if you rinse very, very well. However, I would not recommend using bleach, as it is so hard to rinse away completely.

Having not sulfited is an issue. If the wine turned more of a brown color or stinks or smells like vinegar, the wine could be spoiled. Hopefully none of these are true. In a home winery, you should always use sulfites. Leave the "no sulfites added" to the pros.

Not knowing just how long each wine is supposed to age, it is not possible for me to say for sure, but the taste of young, green wine can be very tart and chemically tasting. Maybe that's the issue. How long did your recipes say to age?

Degassing:
This could be the issue. Did you keep an airlock on the wine while it was aging? If you don't use an air lock while aging, you have to stir out all the CO2 before aging begins. Otherwise, it can't get out without an airlock, if it's in a sealed vessel.

Do this - seal the top of one of the bottles, then shake it for about 10 seconds really hard. When you remove the top (or your thumb), if it fizzes, pops, or spews a lot, it still has CO2 in it. (Think of shaking a can of coke, then opening it.) It will not taste well at all if this is true. If so, what you can do is open the wine a few hours before you intend to drink; pour it into an open-topped container, like a decanter, shake it around to get the CO2 to turn loose; and let it set for several hours this way. The CO2 should come out.

Just don't throw the wine out until it is proven it is no longer drinkable.

 

[Truebrew]

Well, using bleach is not that bad, if you rinse very, very well. However, I would not recommend using bleach, as it is so hard to rinse away completely.

I stopped using it after a couple of batches (thanks to this forum).

Having not sulfited is an issue. If the wine turned more of a brown color or stinks or smells like vinegar, the wine could be spoiled.

Don't think that's it, then. Color is beautiful and clear, no odors or vinegar smell. And I'm now using sulfites in all batches.

Not knowing just how long each wine is supposed to age, it is not possible for me to say for sure, but the taste of young, green wine can be very tart and chemically tasting. Maybe that's the issue. How long did your recipes say to age?

Maybe that's it. Most recipes say to wait a minimum of 6 mos. to 1 yr. We're at the 6 mo. mark now.

Degassing:
This could be the issue. Did you keep an airlock on the wine while it was aging? If you don't use an air lock while aging, you have to stir out all the CO2 before aging begins. Otherwise, it can't get out without an airlock, if it's in a sealed vessel.

Yes, the airlock has been my friend. I love seeing and hearing those bloops!

Do this - seal the top of one of the bottles, then shake it for about 10 seconds really hard. When you remove the top (or your thumb), if it fizzes, pops, or spews a lot, it still has CO2 in it. (Think of shaking a can of coke, then opening it.) It will not taste well at all if this is true. If so, what you can do is open the wine a few hours before you intend to drink; pour it into an open-topped container, like a decanter, shake it around to get the CO2 to turn loose; and let it set for several hours this way. The CO2 should come out.

Eureka! I think that's it... I just went down and pulled a 375 ml bottle of rice wine out (it's clear) and shook the heck out of it with the cork still in...sure enough, tiny bubbles galore, even making a little head on it. It did dissipate quickly, though. Looks like I'll be letting these suckers breathe awhile.

Thanks!!! Will let you know if this helped.

 

[robie]

That's great , Susan.

Just be mindful that even if you put plain water in a bottle and shake it, you will get some bubbles, which will dissipate in a short time. CO2 bubbles are very small (remember that coke you poured too quickly) and fizzy.

Getting out all the CO2 is one of the hardest things for a new wine maker. I still have a challenge with it from time to time. Getting the temp to about 75F is very important. (Think about shaking a very cold can of coke, vs. a warm one. The warm one really releases the CO2!!!)