Using a collapsible water container after initial fermentation

[Mbar]

Hi All,
I just watched a video of a guy using a collapsible container instead of a carboy. Practically it makes a lot of sense as you don't need to worry about filling your carboy right to the top. Has anyone given this a go or what the drawbacks might be? thanks

Pic below. He doesn't make a very good wine but has some creative ideas. also like the homemade airlock.

 

[rustbucket]

That does sound like a good idea, although it may be unwieldy; but I suppose you could just put it in a milk crate for support.

 

[winemaker81]

If the container is not made specifically for wine making, I'd be cautious. The high acidity of wine can leach from the plastic, and the plastic may not be a good O2 barrier.

He doesn't make a very good wine but has some creative ideas.

This indicates to me that it's probably a poor idea. If the wine isn't good, his creativity is not useful.

 

[balatonwine]

the plastic may not be a good O2 barrier.

Correct.

Plastic actually is indeed not a good O2 barrier. Plastics are rather permeable to O2, some more than others (HDPE less than PET), and especially thin plastic can permeate "a lot" of O2. Which is why commercial plastic wine making containers are very thick walled, to reduce (but not eliminate) issues of O2.

A crushable plastic jug is fine for taking wine on a camping trip for a few days, as "squeezing" out the wine can reduce direct O2 contact over head space in a large solid jug. But I would not leave wine in such a container for very long and expect the wine not to degrade.

 

[rustbucket]

If the container is not made specifically for wine making, I'd be cautious. The high acidity of wine can leach from the plastic, and the plastic may not be a good O2 barrier.


This indicates to me that it's probably a poor idea. If the wine isn't good, his creativity is not useful.

I agree, Bryan, not for long term use with the existing collapsible bags made of unknow plastic materials. But I'll point out that the juice that comes in wine kits is shipped in collapsible plastic bags. That indicates that plastic leaching into the juice isn't a concern for kit manufacturers.

I can't think of a reason why a carboy company like Better Bottle couldn't make a collapsible wine carboy using the same plastic that they make their carboys from.

 

[winemaker81]

But I'll point out that the juice that comes in wine kits is shipped in collapsible plastic bags. That indicates that plastic leaching into the juice isn't a concern for kit manufacturers.

These are very different materials. The bags used to ship juice are designed for juice, while the bags used to ship box wines are designed for wine. A water jug is a very different material, not designed for the high acid contents.

The material used for rigid "plastic" carboys (plastic in quotes as it's probably not strictly a plastic), is going to be different from one that is semi-rigid. I'm not saying such a product cannot be made, but there are different design issues involved.

 

[rustbucket]

I'm not saying such a product cannot be made, but there are different design issues involved.

You're making very good points but design issues and material limitations could be overcome in time if the use of collapsible containers for wine fermentation was practical. The real reason for the nonuse of such containers may be unrelated to design or materials, although I have no idea what that could be.

 

[balatonwine]

The real reason for the nonuse of such containers may be unrelated to design or materials, although I have no idea what that could be.

They are used and do exist. Wine in a box "bags" for example. You can even buy them and a "small scale" filler and fill your own wine in a box bags. But even so, they only have a shelf life of 6 to 9 months.

But as @winemaker81 said, this post was a person using water bottles, which are different (different materials for a different purpose, so different shelf life).

 

[franc1969]

I recommended using a collapsible water carboy in another thread. It would not be ideal, by any means, too much oxygen ingress for anything other than short term. For settling newly fermented/pressed wine, or in a country where winemaking is prohibited, ok. Going camping with a jug- great.
You would be much better off getting the wine bags sold for wine, from your local supply place / MoreWine/ Amazon. Still, you are speaking small batches or top-off wine in quantity. I think the largest holds 5L?

 

[balatonwine]

You would be much better off getting the wine bags sold for wine, from your local supply place / MoreWine/ Amazon. Still, you are speaking small batches or top-off wine in quantity. I think the largest holds 5L?

Astrapouch goes up to 300 gallons.

https://astrapouch-na.com/product-category/bag-in-box/bib-bags/

 

[franc1969]

Had no idea, i guess not as easily found here.

 

[balatonwine]

Had no idea, i guess not as easily found here.

While Astrapouch has products on Amazon.... The Amazon web site product list is not always a full totality list of products available from any company.

Too often people think these days if it is not on Amazon, it must not exist.....

Wrong.

Always good to go to the company web site for full options. Astrapouch is an American company, and can of course ship in the USA. Also ships anywhere in the world.... if one is willing to pay the shipping and other import costs.

Hope this helps

 

[franc1969]

I only go to Amazon if there isn'ta reasonable other option. I never needed pouches to go look further than some wine supply places. Definitely worth looking at if you were commercial or wanted to replace all your carboys with milk crates/ or cheap barrels and bag liners.

 

[balatonwine]

I only go to Amazon if there isn'ta reasonable other option.

Apologies.

My comment, while quoting you, was more a generic rant. Not intended to be a personal commentary.

Mea culpa.

 

[Mbar]

If the container is not made specifically for wine making, I'd be cautious. The high acidity of wine can leach from the plastic, and the plastic may not be a good O2 barrier.


This indicates to me that it's probably a poor idea. If the wine isn't good, his creativity is not useful.

New to this forum but really appreciate the engagement, top stuff. The video was of someone who had no experience making wine, a first attempt. He used baking yeast and probably not ideal grapes so i think its fair to say we can disregard the use of the containers as his main issue with the final product. I've just moved to Ghana, keen to use all the high brix fruit available here, focusing on pineapple, to start my first batches. I've made a few ciders in the UK before. Hard to bring over glass carboys, thought this might be a solution to pack in the suitcase.

 

[winemaker81]

He used baking yeast and probably not ideal grapes so i think its fair to say we can disregard the use of the containers as his main issue with the final product.

I'm happy I wasn't drinking when I read this. Wine through the sinuses is not a fun thing!

The prime reason why a lot of folks on this forum dislike YouTube winemaker videos, is far too many have no clue what they are doing yet they get widespread coverage.

Continue the research into containers. You may find something useful.

 

[Mbar]

I'm happy I wasn't drinking when I read this. Wine through the sinuses is not a fun thing!

The prime reason why a lot of folks on this forum dislike YouTube winemaker videos, is far too many have no clue what they are doing yet they get widespread coverage.

Continue the research into containers. You may find something useful.

Completely agree, it amazes me. Although its always nice to learn from other people making mistakes.
Having done what i would call minimal research and then seeing people posting videos and not checking the basic composition of their must, ph levels and brix, and just chucking in some yeast.....
If i may ask as i i'm yet to get an answer on this anywhere else. Why do people, when making a fruit wine, add so much water and sugar? Why not just use 100% pressed fruit and then adjust sugar and acid levels whilst minimizing the amount of water you introduce to the must? Am i missing something? Apologies but there seems to be some knowledgeable people commenting so i'll take the opportunity to chuck this in.

 

[winemaker81]

Why do people, when making a fruit wine, add so much water and sugar?

Grapes are the yardstick for wine because everything -- flavor, yeast, and sugar -- are in one little package. Sure, grapes are not perfect and may be helped by additions, but they are closer to ideal than any other fruit.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I have made wine in LDPE cubitainers.
you can use a standard cork and airlock BUT it needs to be supported
a month I wouldn’t complain about but if you do it at second racking for six months the wine will develop a sherry (slow oxidation) flavor, racking out is a little harder since lees are disturbed, it needs support as a cardboard box.
I have made wine in bag in box wine bags. EVOH
you can use a standard cork, you have to support the opening, there is low oxygen transmission so the flavor is good, this could be used after a cubitainer/ one month to a year, racking is a little harder since the lees can be disturbed, it requires a box or enclosure of some type.

I just watched a video of a guy using a collapsible container instead of a carboy. Practically it makes a lot of sense as you don't need to worry about filling your carboy right to the top. Has anyone given this a go or what the drawbacks might be?

 

[balatonwine]

This image made me laugh. Looks like two high society bottles, and their drunkard Uncle.....