Using K Meta

[cuz]

I just finished bottling about 60 bottles of red using the 1/4 teaspoon of K-Meta to 6 gallons of wine. When I went to pick up my Chilean wine today I got into a conversation with my local vinter/distributor about using K-Meta. According to him adding it to the wine is poison for the body like using MSG. He claims if you use potassium metabisulfite to sterilize your bottles it will leave a film on the inside of the bottle which he showed me. (He had a cool bottler spray set up on top of the drying rack). According to him when you fill the bottle with wine the K meta film gives off an inert gas that stays in the air space at the top of the bottle. This acts like nitrogen that commercial winery use. There is no need to add K meta if you spray your bottles with it to sanitize. All the post I have read advise to use K meta in the wine. Anyone use this film method?

 

[dralarms]

I think he’s full of crap. Kmeta is a preservative and has been used for many years

 

[salcoco]

the film concept he proposed render possibly 20ppm to the wine. if you check most ph chart against k-meta dosages, 50ppm is required.k-meta os a oxygen scavenger as well as a bacterial containment additive. without he proper dosage wine would not last during bulk or bottle aging fo the periods it does.

I will take the chances it is poison to my body versus having spoiled wine.

 

[sour_grapes]

According to him adding it to the wine is poison for the body like using MSG.

Yes, that is correct. K-meta is about as dangerous as MSG -- namely, they are both perfectly safe. In both cases, misinformed people have tried to scare others.

 

[NorCal]

His logic was hard to follow. He thinks using SO2 is poison, yet he advocates spraying the bottles with it, instead of adding it to the wine?

Perhaps what he is saying that you don't need as much as the well established and scientifically proven charts say you do? I hope he doesn't eat raisins.

Sulfites in Dried Fruits
Dried fruits are among the foods highest in sulfites, with raisins and prunes containing between 500 and 2,000 parts per million. By comparison, wine -- a food thought by many to be high in sulfites -- contains between 20 and 350 parts per million. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration mandates that foods containing more than 10 parts per million of sulfites must list this information on the food label. Countries have different standards for sulfites. The Australian government limits the amount of sulfites in foods to 3,000 ppm, while the British government limits sulfites in food to 2,000 ppm.

 

[Ajmassa]

But nobody’s throwing back multiple bottles worth of dried fruit or lunch meat over a wknd either
I don’t think he’s outright wrong. The amount of sulfites said to be needed has been decreasing over time too. Even winemaker mag lowered the So2 calc minimums.
When a wine is at a healthy ph and fully topped up while aging with minimal racking - rinsing bottles on the washer bowl thing for residual solution and/or a film- and using quality corks- I bet your cool for a while. Barrel aging or high ph probably not so much.
I’ve seen 1st hand family wine made without adding Kmeta - bottled with screwcaps- and not show oxidization. I think 2-3 yrs was the longest it ever aged before consumption. In a non temp controlled basement too. We did however sanitize bottles with k-meta- basically exactly what this dude suggested.
I’m not saying it’s a good idea-definitely shortens bottle lifespan. And takes more than we add to taste it anyway. But taught me to not get hung up on the issue or fear o2 as much.

 

[cuz]

Aside from the discussion of whether K meta is safe to use and how many ppm is required to age wine and for how long (my family is similar to AJ's -wine will never last 3 years.) What about this whole concept of inert gas being produced when the wine contacts the film. If you cork it fast enough that inert gas will be trapped in the ullage. Seems like a good idea.

 

[Scooter68]

If this concept of the inert gas was a proven thing, then why would commercial winemakers use sulfites? They already produce wine with the expectation that it will be consumed within one year so using that concept of the inert gas why would they still use sulfites?

To me, since our level of usage is VERY low compared to dried fruit and other sulfite preserved items I can't see any reason to discontinue using K-meta. To each his own of course but... until I see some concrete proof of the harm of sulfites at our usage levels AND proof of this alternate idea, I think I'll stick to the safe process. As to the effect when consuming many bottles of wine in a weekend, Think there are other issues I be concerned with besides the sulfites in my wine.

 

[Ajmassa]

Aside from the discussion of whether K meta is safe to use and how many ppm is required to age wine and for how long (my family is similar to AJ's -wine will never last 3 years.) What about this whole concept of inert gas being produced when the wine contacts the film. If you cork it fast enough that inert gas will be trapped in the ullage. Seems like a good idea.

The gas from Kmeta does definitely sanitize. As used in the “corkador” thing
And the gas can add ppm to a wine judging from Chilean grapes from shipping. So at least some is entering the wine. And @salcoco said this earlier.

the film concept he proposed render possibly 20ppm to the wine.

. But why skip So2 all together and take a risk without good reason?

 

[pgentile]

Jumping into this discussion late, and I'm still deep into the learning curve with wine making. Plus I'm enjoying a glass or two right now and it is 12:15 am. But I was thinking along the lines of the OP, I spray everything and sterilize with kmeta solution, even with rinsing or not how much so2 is in my wine just from that never mind adding a 1/4 tsp every 3 months. Of course this is one of the reasons I should have something to measure it with accurately.

I was reading the following article and it got me to wonder if wine is going to be consumed in less than 3-5 years does adding kmeta at the recommended dosage inhibit the wine in any way? The following blurb from recorking wines hints that the addition of so2 and nitrogen will inhibit aroma and taste for a while. Do so2 additions do this this? Is it nitrogen? Or is it hyper bottle shock from something 30+ years old in the stated case?

"At that point, the bottle is recapsuled and the process of recorking is completed. Due to the introduction of nitrogen and SO2, the recorked bottle should not be opened for at least 3 to 5 years to allow the extra gas to dissipate. If you were to open a recorked wine shortly after if was recorked, the wine would be mute and not display much, if any aromatic or flavor intensity or complexity.
Read more at:https://www.thewinecellarinsider.co.../recorked-or-reconditioned-bottles-explained/"

https://www.thewinecellarinsider.co.../recorked-or-reconditioned-bottles-explained/

At this point I'm not worried about sulfites and health, but what about sulfites and flavor? I want some of my wines to age 5+ years but most will be consumed long before that.

 

[Venatorscribe]

In my case I don't use sulfites for sanitising bottles. I have been rinsing bottles in a 1% iodophor solution then allowing them to drain and air dry on a bottle tree for a couple of hours. It is becoming difficult to buy iodophor at present so I will change to StarSan. Which is what I suspect your local vinter might be using. And FYI that is phosphoric acid. It is effective and safe as a sanitiser at the dilutions we use it, requiring nothing more that a few squirts from a spray bottle.

 

[Scooter68]

StarSan here. Switched to it for all sanitizing when I found that One-Step has a VERY short life once mixed. No worries about confusing my sanitizing mix quantity with wine treatment usage. Read enough stories about people forgetting what they were doing and accidentally dosing 5 gallons of wine with the amount to make 1 gallon of sanitizer. Using two different product I never have that problem. Also my Quart of Star-San concentrate will go a long long long way at the recommended mix rate. Only thing I have to do is mix it with distilled water, our tap water always makes a cloudy mix.

 

[bstnh1]

I just finished bottling about 60 bottles of red using the 1/4 teaspoon of K-Meta to 6 gallons of wine. When I went to pick up my Chilean wine today I got into a conversation with my local vinter/distributor about using K-Meta. According to him adding it to the wine is poison for the body like using MSG. He claims if you use potassium metabisulfite to sterilize your bottles it will leave a film on the inside of the bottle which he showed me. (He had a cool bottler spray set up on top of the drying rack). According to him when you fill the bottle with wine the K meta film gives off an inert gas that stays in the air space at the top of the bottle. This acts like nitrogen that commercial winery use. There is no need to add K meta if you spray your bottles with it to sanitize. All the post I have read advise to use K meta in the wine. Anyone use this film method?

The SO2 dissipates in the bottles within 2 or 3 minutes after sanitizing them. It doesn't form a film and keep giving off gas. It's been used as a wine and food preservative for eons.

 

[cuz]

I have seen the film in the bottle rinsed with K-Meta. Not sure about the gas that is given off when the wine hits it. As far as the raisins and other foods with high sulfite levels all I want to say is that there are many foods that we ingest that are killing us slowly. Seems like we're saying everyone is doing it so it must be OK, the commercial wine makers are doing it so it must be OK. Its in our food anyway. Maybe time for a change. Has anyone really had a spoiled wine due to lack of SO2. If so what are the characteristics - what does wine taste like with no sulfites?

 

[stickman]

There are books with entire chapters devoted to sulfite management and the consequences of not using it. I have seen plenty of wine made without sulfite, similar to @Ajmassa5983, many of the people doing this are perfectly happy with their wine, nothing wrong with that. These same people are also amazed with how the life of their wine is extended when the bottles are only rinsed with sulfite solution. Sulfite solution, if made without any acid, will generally release so2 gas when the wine contacts and lowers the pH of the droplets or film clinging to the wall of the bottle. The amount of so2 gas released will depend on the sulfite solution concentration and the residual amount left in the bottle after rinsing. For example, if the bottle is rinsed with sulfite and left upside down for a while, it will have considerably less residue than rinsing and immediately filling with wine. In any case, the wine does have the potential to pickup several ppm of sulfite if bottled this way, but the results will be variable depending on your specific procedure. Most winemakers, including myself, prefer weighing and adding known amounts of sulfite for greater consistency.