Using my Grandfather's Italian Press Alone

[Bklynitalian]

(sorry if this is long lol)
Hi Everyone! I used to help my Italian Grandfather make wine with his press about 15 years ago. I never really paid strict strict attention, but kind of just did what he said. Well my grandpa passed away about 6 years ago, and I have his old press and crusher, so this year I decided to give it a whirl again with what I remembered. I am not sure if I did everything correctly, and might have a stuck fermentation.
I have been brewing beer for the past few years and am pretty pro at that, so I understand fermentation concepts and using my hydrometer. Though this is different of course.
I bought 3 cases of Merlot & 1 case of Zinfandel grapes from the wine supplier at the Fruit Market here in Brooklyn, Ny (Very old fashioned place, I gave a run down to the old Italian man there of what I was doing prior, and said it seemed correct).
I crushed all 4 cases of grapes together and mixed it into 2 fermentation pails I have from my beer making. I left the crushed grapes, pulp etc sit in the buckets with towels on them for 3 days in my garage. 3 days later I syphoned off the loose juice into my 7 gallon carboy and crushed the grapes. I ended up filling up my 7 gallon carboy and had about a gallon left over, I didn't want to use a big carboy for a gallon, so I put it into a Carlo Rossi 1 gallon jug. This point I might have messed up.
My grandpa never used commercial yeast, always told me he liked the wild yeast flavor better, so to be true to him I didn't use yeast. My hydrometer reading at this point was 1.100 which I thought was good. Now he used to leave his demijohn spout open. at this point. I thought I read to use an airlock, so in the caboy I used an S lock with star san in it and the Gallon jug I poked a hole in the cap and inserted an S lock as well. This was def not airight, but I figured it was only a gallon. lets see what happens. both started to bubble and ferment and went up into the necks of the bottles within a few hours. after 4 days I took hydrometer readings. the Carboy was at the exact same spot 1.100 and tasted like sweet grape juice, the jug was at 1.080 and tasted more like it was fermenting. At this point I thought maybe I shouldn't have used the air locks and took them out. I left them another 4 days (total 8 days since the press) and checked again tonight, the 7 gallon carboy is still at 1.100 the gallon jug was at 1.040. I knew the gallon was fermenting nicely especially since I took the airlock out, but the caboy without airlock is still too high. I remember my grandfather would tell me to transfer the wine after about 10 days to another vessel, so today I syphoned (leaving the sediment behind) and mixed both of them together into another carboy and put the airlock back in. This new mixed juice is now at 1.080. How many things did I do wrong? I know most people use yeast but I tried to be like Grandpa I guess. Did I have a stuck fermentation in the big carboy? should I not have been using airlocks that early?
Any ideas would be helpful! Or do i have 7 gallons of grape juice now? lol Also, I star san everything before it touches the juice, habit from my beer making, but I read on their site it is OK to use on wine.
Sorry for the long post, just trying to be like grandpa
How many things did I do wrong?

 

[Ajmassa]

To be fair- there is no “wrong way”. Everyone has their own way, your grandfather included. But it sounds like you complicated this up way more than it needed to be.
1st and foremost- no need remove the juice from the skins that early. You want them in the wine throughout fermentation- it’s where all the good stuff comes from!
You could have just crushed into your fermentation buckets- let it ferment to dry while stirring it all up a few times a day. Lids on loose or even a towel draped over. Airlocked isn’t necessary. But not necessarily bad either. Once dry you transfer the wine into glass and press the skins. Rack off the sediment in a few days. Get the carboys topped up and put to rest for a while.
I imagine your juice is a little light since didn’t get many days with the skins. But still good. I’d put that sucker back in the buckets and pitch a strong yeast like EC1118 and start over. I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t ferment at this point. It’s essentially grape juice ready to become wine. But it is odd that the main batch never fermented at all. Did you see any visible activity at all?
Some nutrients might help too. This manual s your friend. https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wredw.pdf

 

[Stressbaby]

I second that advice. Mix, nutrients, pitch a workhorse yeast.

 

[Bklynitalian]

thanks guys for your replies. I read a few manuals, but they most went the yeast route, and i was trying to do it grandpa way, with what I had in memory.
I did crush directly into fermentation buckets. I left the juice, pulp etc (i think that's called the must?) in the buckets 3 days, with a towel over buckets. I had read to mix the buckets a few times a day, so i did that. there didnt seem to be any activity in the buckets. I siphoned the loose juice right before i pressed the must, like 5 minutes before, into the carboy. Then pressed the remaining grapes and stems and added that to the carboy. Did i not leave it in long enough in the fermentation bucket?
And, after i pressed the must into the caboy i added the airlock. Was I not supposed to? i can honestly not remember my grandpa using an airlock, or him having one. But i read all over regarding them, and since i have a bunch i used it.
The 1 gallon jug which fermented, i punched an airlock into the cap definitely wasn't airtight, that is why im thinking i shouldnt have airlocked the carboy right after the press.
The pressed juice in the carboy and gallon jug def did ferment, i was down every few hours and saw it bubbling up and activity into the airlock, that lasted about 24 hours. From brewing beer I knew what to look for.
Right now my gravity is at 1.080 should i wait and see if it goes down? take out the airlock? or just pitch it all back to buckets and add the yeast.
Thank you so much for your time!
I did ask my dad, but he just buys juice trucked in from California and dumps it into his demijohn, and doesnt remember. He actually yelled at me and said just buy the juice! don't waste your time. lol
thanks again
Jack

 

[meadmaker1]

If you mixed both batches the small one should start the other.
I recommend using a bucket for primary but its just for ease of stirring. Adding air lock at around 1.010 to 1.000 after racking to glass
Stirring is less of an issue without skins forming a cap but i still do it.

 

[stickman]

Were the grapes cold when you crushed them? Fermentation may not start for a few days if the batch is cold. The small jug may have started fermentation earlier due to warming up faster than the larger carboy. Make sure the temperature is at least 65F to 70F to get fermentation started.

 

[Bklynitalian]

Hi MeadMaker, when you refer to the primary, do you mean the must after the crush? Or the juice/must after the press? I might be getting confused by primary naming in beermaking. After I crushed the grapes, i let it sit in buckets for 3 days, and stirred it then put it in the press. the gravity never changed from right after the crush to the press.
The combined juice gravity now is 1.080 and its in a carboy with an airlock. I checked it this morning and it looked like it started to ferment again. Maybe by mixing the 2 jucies, the smaller gallon (non airlocked) juice got it to start as you mentioned?
Hi Stickman. The grapes were ambient temp, prob around 70. I had the crushed juice in my garage, and the temp was about 70 that week. I also didnt wash the grapes, i read somewhere that it takes the yeast off of them.
One thing though. the carboy was mostly all the juice from the begining of the press. Towards the very end, i ran out of room and the last presses went into the 1 gallon jug. Maybe that affected fermentation?
Thanks you for answering!!

 

[meadmaker1]

For primary most are refering to the majority if not all of the active fermintation . Moving from open, to air locked vessel when sg is near 1.000 or less to clear degass and age.

 

[Bklynitalian]

Thank you meadmaker. That must have been my mistake. I airlocked the first carboy the day of the press when the gravity was 1.010. I should have left that Carboy with no airlock until the gravity lowered. Then airlocked it.
My small 1 gallon airlock wasn’t airtight so it allowed oxygen in. Allowing it to ferment down to 1.040. The carboy which is technically my secondary is def still fermenting. When I get home I will remove it’s airlock and let it go until it’s down close to 1.000 then air lock it.
Question. I only let the crushed grapes sit 48 hours in the bucket. Before pressing. That gravity never moved. Should I have waited longer.
Thanks again!

 

[Bts]

Very briefly, the "normal" process for reds is to crush them, add yeast(or not if you want to use wild yeast on the skins), and let it ferment(primary) until at least like 70 or 80% of the sugar is fermented(say 3 to 15 days depending on numerous factors), and then press and transfer to a carboy for secondary fermentation. That middle part where it's fermenting on the skins is where the yeast and alcohol break down the skins and extract a lot of the flavor and color you want in a red wine. During that period the skins will tend to float to the top and form a thick mat, which you want to punch down(stir/submerge) 2 or 3 times a day so they stay wet(avoids mold) and so they all get time in contact with the wine to extract their flavor/color. For whites it's crush and press immediately. For rose it's crush and press after a short delay, so you've done kind of a extended/dark rose style. Nothing wrong with that, but removing the skins quickly when you're relying on wild yeast from the skins could have contributed to your slow start. And from what I've heard wild yeast starts and ferments quite slow to begin with. I doubt open vs airlock really mattered much, just be sure to airlock it by the time it's dry.