Vishnick - Sweet cherry wine, or maybe it's a liqueur - Advice for bottling?

[Deezil]

It sounds very similiar to a limoncello & is basically the same process except that the lemon peels are steeped in the liqueur with the simple syrup being added later instead of all mixed in to sit..

I looked limoncello up on google, checked the wikipedia page & it had a link to a drink called 'Cherry Bounce' - same thing y'all are talking about..

Sounds good tho

 

[bob1]

nope mine was fermented and vodka is used to stop fermenting. There are natural yeast on them they will ferment on their own.
When goggled ran across it

http://pragmaticattic.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/vishniak-uppdate/

 

[ckassotis]

Yeah, I think there is a whole lot of confusion here. It sounds like a lot of people are doing cherry infusions, but that isn't what this point was originally about. Nor does it seem like it is what the vishniak/vishnick etc of old was.

So the issues I have heard are as follows:
-No yeast would readily ferment something that high in sugar
-Sanitization would remove any wild yeast that may be present

So, nowhere do I see any mention of campden, so we aren't killing off any wild yeasts. This would allow for fermentation of any wild yeast that are potentially on the cherries. I'm not sure that you would be able to wash them beforehand - remember that grape-using winemakers aren't washing grapes prior to crushing/press. Nor the ones who are letting them sit outside to naturally ferment.

So the only other unresolved issue is the crazy high sugar. I'm, not actually seeing any comments about an actual amount of sugar used, so I don't think we can assume that we are putting more in than a yeast could possibly tolerate. It might mean we need a well-documented bench trial by someone here, with pics, etc. I might just give this a shot myself. Something like the trial in the website that bob1 linked. An infusion vs. the supposed real thing, and see what happens. Get some actual S.G. readings, etc etc.

 

[ckassotis]

If you follow a link in the above-linked post, you end up at a more detailed explanation:

http://pragmaticattic.wordpress.com/2009/07/19/homemade-sour-cherry-brandy-visinata-or-vishniak/#more-1017

They are definitely not adding the vodka up front, but later on after some sort of fermentation has already happened.

Super neat sort of detective work this guy has done. Hard to find the truth in an old tradition sometimes!

 

[bob1]

we did not use to sanitize the berries. I did rinse mine in sulfite the last time. thats why I added the yeast. If you just clean them and set in a bucket they will ferment. I know that we are told it is not supposed to but it does.

 

[ckassotis]

This is super interesting. Not sure where I will find sour cherries though - I probably just missed the season. Hrm.

 

[Deezil]

Reading through the first two posts again..

Says theres a few cups of cherries floating in liquid, so the jar is by no-means full of cherries... The liquid its floating in - just the juice from the cherries + the 1 lemon?

Also says that theres just enough sugar added to cover the cherries - now just because i know how old cooking recipes were written, this makes me wonder - do they mean that they shook the sugar down into the cracks between all the cherries until the top layer was actually covered, or did they just sprinkle a layer of sugar over the top layer of cherries?

Most non-grape, ripe fruits usually fall somewhere between 1.030 & 1.045 SG, plenty of room for most of the sugar to ferment and leave enough behind to keep the sweetness..

I'm gonna try it..
Just wonder if anyone knows the answers to these tidbits, so i can go for authentic

My best guess is to add a couple cups of cherries to a mason jar, sprinkle enough sugar in to dust the top layer & stir it every day for a while... I'm sure it'd ferment and sounds delicious, just wonder if anyone here seen how older generations made it

 

[Deezil]

The guy in the link that Ckassotis gave plays with a ratio of 2 cups cherries : 1 cup sugar..

Might have to try it a few different ways - someone mentioned bench trials

Wonder how it'd make as an F-pack to a cherry wine

 

[ckassotis]

Wonder how it'd make as an F-pack to a cherry wine

Well once it is fortified with the vodka or whatever, it will be pretty high alcohol for an f-pack for a wine. However, I would be pretty interested in using it as an f-pack of sorts for a fruit port. That could be pretty darn interesting.

As for your other comments, I think it is just the juice of the lemon (though other recipes I don't see that) and the cherry juice that is fermenting. It sounds like the cherries are going to release a good deal of juice from the sounds of it, and sort of shrivel up. So they end up taking up considerably less space. I like the idea of the lemon, adds some acidity and some preservation quality in there for the initial bit.

One comment that I saw had the sugar added so that they put a layer of cherries and then covered it with sugar, kind of like lasagna, all the way to the top. The comments also said to be sure to shake it twice a day or so.

 

[Deezil]

Well once it is fortified with the vodka or whatever, it will be pretty high alcohol for an f-pack for a wine. However, I would be pretty interested in using it as an f-pack of sorts for a fruit port. That could be pretty darn interesting.

As for your other comments, I think it is just the juice of the lemon (though other recipes I don't see that) and the cherry juice that is fermenting. It sounds like the cherries are going to release a good deal of juice from the sounds of it, and sort of shrivel up. So they end up taking up considerably less space. I like the idea of the lemon, adds some acidity and some preservation quality in there for the initial bit.

One comment that I saw had the sugar added so that they put a layer of cherries and then covered it with sugar, kind of like lasagna, all the way to the top. The comments also said to be sure to shake it twice a day or so.

Sorry I'm a port fan, i just naturally think along those lines

And cherries do have a good deal of juice in them, but i didnt account for the shriveling factor so maybe it is pretty full in the beginning - just not in the end

The lasagna idea isnt too bad of an idea either

I think when i try it, i'll try the 2 cups cherries : 1 cup sugar & shake/stir

 

[ckassotis]

Absolutely! Love port! The thought of a cherry port with this stuff has me drooling a bit. Excuse me while I clean up my desk a bit.

You have any thoughts on the cherries? Sour cherries are supposedly only in season late June-early July. So I'm wondering if I'll need to put this off for a year. Or perhaps try a different type of cherry. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Deezil]

Personally, i'll probably try it with sweet cherries.. But thats just what i was raised on / what i like & what i can get my hands on...

Probably a difference in the finished product, but not sure what it'd be..

I also wondered if you could substitute the sugar with honey

 

[bob1]

1 lb sour cherries
3/4 cup sugar
Layer them this way then give a good shake.
I just sprinkled the yeast then shook it.
By next day it will be fizzing.
You must watch the liquid level once it stops rising
get it off the cherries and add fresh sugar of the same
amount before.

 

[ckassotis]

Sort of off-topic, picked up some Rainier cherries the other day. Always been curious about them. Quite expensive, and interesting-looking. Perhaps because I grew up on the standard sweet cherries, these were just way over the top to me. Each one was like a little creamy treat. Sounds delicious, but was so over the top sweet that it didn't even taste remotely healthy, despite being a fruit. Might give this a shot with some sweet cherries myself. Can anyone speak to the impact of sweet vs. sour cherries in this?

 

[Deezil]

So I'm trying it, and covering it here
We'll see how it goes!

 

[bob1]

Checked that out Deezil. I never pitted them just pulled stems and rinsed them good.

 

[Deezil]

Yeah i know i just didnt wanna deal with the pits later & these cherries hold up pretty good even when they've been canned so the halves should still be solid by the end of this... i know i did a few things differently but shouldnt change the results too much

 

[ckassotis]

You don't want to rinse them well if you are going to try to ferment them naturally. If you want to add your own yeast, that is fine, but you don't want to get rid of the natural yeast that you need to prevent them spoiling.

 

[Deezil]

I didnt rinse them at all myself, but i did just double the recipe in my 1-gallon

now its..

12 cups cherries, pitted
6 cups sugar
1 cup + 2 tablespoons lemon juice

Add 6 cups vodka when the sugars gone
Let sit til christmas

1-gallon is full to the shoulder.. There's room to ferment / add vodka
Off she goes!

 

[ckassotis]

Fantastic. Any updates on this? Does it appear to be doing anything? Not sure if you'd be able to tell very easily. Pic of the doubled recipe?