Vitners wine bases

[lostspring]

Good Morning All
I am new to wine making and probably got a little ahead of myself. I bought a one gallon starter kit to just get my feet wet. I also bought a one gallon Vitners Apricot wine base thinking I could just use one quart of the the base to try and freeze the remainder. I am now reading where some are saying that these bases make a thin wine, I am assuming mouth feel here. So I guess my questions are 1. should I just go ahead and make a one gallon batch using one quart and freeze the rest 2. Increase the amount used. would that require adding more sugar and such . 3. or make a larger batch,3 gallons, maybe using the whole gallon of base and tripling the additives.
Thanks for any and all suggestions

 

[mainshipfred]

Your first choice is the best but you could also just buy a 6 gallon fermenting bucket and some additional 1 gallon jugs and ferment the whole thing. This would be my recommendation. With this product you only add water and yeast, nothing else. They probably do make thin wines but that's relative. The sugars are designed to produce a wine of approx 10%. Limiting the amount of water will increase the ABV. A 3 gallon batch will probably have such a high alcohol content the yeast will die off leaving a very sweet, hot wine. You might want to try a 4 - 4.5 gallon batch.

 

[Scooter68]

Which product are you using?

Vintners Best
Vintners Harvest

If it's a 1 gallon jug then it's probably Vintners Best.

In all honesty most makers of these concentrates tend to exaggerate the amount of wine you can make unless you are truly looking for a lightly flavored wine. Not all, but many of us who make fruit wines (vs Grape wines), tend to like stronger flavored wines.

For now I would stay with what you have and wait until is finishes fermenting. You can taste it then BUT remember a new wine (Almost any wine within 3-6 months from the end of fermentation, will tend to have a sharpness to it. (Not to be confused with the bite caused b CO2 in the new wine) So taste it after fermentation finishes and see how much flavor it has. Mouth feel is a different issue.

 

[BernardSmith]

My guess is that the thinness refers more to flavor than mouthfeel. Used to be that Vintners made a product that THEY suggested could make either 3 or 5 gallons and I can tell you that the 3 gallon batch suited me. The added two gallons would be all water and (if I recall, some sugar). But here's the thing: Scooter is right. Many of us do want a richer - in your face -wines that boast the flavor of the fruit. No grape wine maker would think about adding water to must and they might use 12 -16 lbs of fruit per gallon. We might buy 3 lbs of strawberries or raspberries or toss in a half dozen apples and drown the fruit in water and wonder why our wine is not much better than mediocre. Sure, some wines benefit from the addition of water (oranges are very acidic, so are raspberries) but do we really need to add 7 pints of water to a few mangoes to make a mango wine or add water to apples we chop (rather than press) to make a cider or an apple wine?

 

[Scooter68]

I have used Vintner's Harvest 96 oz cans for wine making 6-7 times at least and I've always followed the 3 gallon recipe.
Now Vintner's Best is a different product entirely since the ingredients lists the primary contents as other than the named fruit variety. (See image of label for Strawberry) There's nothing wrong with this unless you are expecting to have a pure 100% single variety wine base. As to the concentration and how much a 1 gallon (128oz) jug will make - That's something each person has to decide for themselves. Starting out with a 1 gallon batch is not a bad idea for a first shot at it.

 

[BernardSmith]

Gotta tell you, Scooter68, I was blown away when I ordered and received two of the packs of Vintner's Best (rhubarb and elderberry) and saw that both the rhubarb and the elderberry was part of a cocktail of fruits and that they had added a load of sugar. I decided to make the batches but I am more than disappointed. When I order rhubarb I expect rhubarb and not a half dozen of additional fruit juices including grape and apple.

 

[Retired teacher]

Vintner’s Best doesn’t hold a candle to the old Vintner’s Harvest in my opinion. Years ago I made many, many fruit wines from the Vintner’s Harvest cans and those are some of the finest fruit wines I have had. Now that I’m back into the hobby I decided to go the same direction. Unfortunately, my local store told me that Vintner’s Best took the place of the old Harvest. After 5 or 6 attempts I’ve been unable to duplicate the success.
A friend has suggested a different kit to try and I will start that this weekend.

 

[mikewatkins727]

@BernardSmith , @Retired teacher : I share your disappointment. I have found two other possible sources of juice. I have used R.W. Knudsen for Cranberry and Tart Cherry. The Tart Cherry has been in the bottle 3-4 months. Just popped the cork on the cherry and it is good.

Here are the two sources:

https://colomafrozen.com/Just Juices | R.W. Knudsen Family®

 

[Scooter68]

Sadly I fear our sources of reliable fruit concentrates that are 100% single variety fruit are fading quickly. Even some of the sources others have found seem to be missing the elements we find make the best wines. Skins and pulp and occasionally seed too are necessary to get the true fruit flavors. A good 'for instance' is that anyone who compares a commercially raised blackberry to a wild blackberry can tell you there is a world of difference. most commercial products were grown with plenty of water and light and all the elements that growers 'believe' are needed for the best fruit. In truth just look a grapes - the best wine grapes aren't grown in lush rich rich soil with plenty of water from day one. The struggle of a plant to survive and produce "Offspring" through their fruit makes the fruit far more flavorful. Call me full of BS if you want but that's what my taste buds tell me.

So back to the original question - Yes reading the ingredients and using a reality filter on the makers claims for the ability of their concentrate is very very important. We all have different tastes so some may find great joy in a Vintner's Best (VB) 6 to 1 mix or a Vintner's Harvest (VH) 5 to 1 mix (1 being 1 gallon of VB and 1 being a 96 oz can of VH) Some of us are happier with say a 3 to 1 mix for VH and others may want even more. To me the key is are you getting what you think you are getting when you buy that concentrate? Look back almost a year on this forum and we found that supplier out of Michigan who failed to label or inform buyers that they were getting a mix of fruits in the concentrate he marketed. That ended up with seller being cited by the state for failure to comply with state labeling laws. That supplier had been a popular one for a number of folks on here and at least a couple of them I know stopped buying from that seller because of that unannounced change in the product.

 

[Retired teacher]

Here are the two sources:

Thank you for the sources. Looks promising.

 

[Raptor99]

I have used the Fruitfast tart cherry concentrate, and the flavor is fantastic Tart Cherry Concentrate - 32 oz Juice Concentrate. It is 100% tart cherry juice, with nothing else added. It is a bit more expensive, but that is to be expected. Corn syrup and apple juice are cheap.

I am in the process of moving to a new house with lots of wild blackberries on the property. I am looking forward to making some of them into wine.

 

[Scooter68]

I have used the Fruitfast tart cherry concentrate, and the flavor is fantastic Tart Cherry Concentrate - 32 oz Juice Concentrate. It is 100% tart cherry juice, with nothing else added. It is a bit more expensive, but that is to be expected. Corn syrup and apple juice are cheap.

I am in the process of moving to a new house with lots of wild blackberries on the property. I am looking forward to making some of them into wine.

1) Sounds like a good move there. Wild Blackberries make an awesome wine. My normal use is about 4-5 lbs per gallon of wine. Your results may vary but for me with our small wild blackberries that ends up making a VERY strong flavored wine. Most of our berries are about the size of a standard marble so they are very concentrated little things.

2) Fruitfast is a good concentrate as well as Cherry Bay brand. They run close in price too. I normally make a 3 gallon batch with 3 x 16 oz bottles of Tart Cherry and 1 x 16 bottle of Sweet (Black Cherry) concentrate. Each 16 oz bottle is supposed to make 1 gallon of normal strength juice.

Have good move there and good luck with those blackberries.

 

[BernardSmith]

@BernardSmith , @Retired teacher : I share your disappointment. I have found two other possible sources of juice. I have used R.W. Knudsen for Cranberry and Tart Cherry. The Tart Cherry has been in the bottle 3-4 months. Just popped the cork on the cherry and it is good.

Here are the two sources:

https://colomafrozen.com/Just Juices | R.W. Knudsen Family®

Thanks for the suggestions. Knudsen, uses pressed fruit and not concentrate. It's a different animal. That said, I do like Knudsen.

 

[Raptor99]

1) Sounds like a good move there. Wild Blackberries make an awesome wine. My normal use is about 4-5 lbs per gallon of wine. Your results may vary but for me with our small wild blackberries that ends up making a VERY strong flavored wine. Most of our berries are about the size of a standard marble so they are very concentrated little things.

2) Fruitfast is a good concentrate as well as Cherry Bay brand. They run close in price too. I normally make a 3 gallon batch with 3 x 16 oz bottles of Tart Cherry and 1 x 16 bottle of Sweet (Black Cherry) concentrate. Each 16 oz bottle is supposed to make 1 gallon of normal strength juice.

Have good move there and good luck with those blackberries.

Thanks! I look forward to the move. We are moving from a place in town to one with 5 acres.

Your 3:1 proportion of tart cherries vs. sweet cherries is similar to what I have tried. It makes a good balanced cherry flavor.