Wasn't expecting this

[Ajmassa]

I think you are confusing sulfides (like H2S) and sulfites (k-meta).

Earlier 3sheets mentioned testing a sample with copper helped rid the smell

 

[sour_grapes]

Earlier 3sheets mentioned testing a sample with copper helped rid the smell

I see. I stand corrected!

 

[Ajmassa]

I see. I stand corrected!

Even tho I could just google this, I’d prefer to hear it in winemaking terms. What is the relationship between hydrogen sulphide and sulphites in wine?

Is this a correct statement?
So2 can prevent H2S, but too much So2 can cause H2s.

 

[Stressbaby]

Speaking of sulfides, I agree, that could be the issue. The bench trial for mercaptans involves ascorbic acid followed by CuSO4. If it were me, I'd address this first, because a sulfite problem will improve with time but sulfide/H2S/mercaptan problem will worsen.

I have used Reduless and it works in cases where the reductive aromas are mild and you catch it early. But if it's bad, Reduless doesn't really contain that much Cu, like 0.02ppm. Contrast that with charts for CuSO4 addtions which run from 0.1ppm to 0.5ppm. I believe the max residual is 0.5ppm.

 

[Swedeman]

Pretty sure there is a threshold at which they have to list sulphur content on the label for even organic apricots.

I'm pretty sure that sulphur isn't allowed on dried organic apricots. As a result, they will be darker than the conventional apricots.

 

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

Did you try pumping through a copper scrubbing pad? Also MoreWine has a kit to remove H2S

No, I dont have a pump. But is this a recommended course of action?
Is it safe?

I do have some copper pipe. I could clean some up and thread it on some fishing line so I can lower it into the wine and easily remove it later. Is there any risk that the acids in the wine could react with the copper and oxidize the catalyst blah blah blah and then everyone gets erectile dysfunction from drinking it?

 

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

Lol, see my 'Apricot wine' thread! I have been fighting with it, and am near the 'dump/save' point- One Last Attempt!

Lol I'll go check it out.

 

[stickman]

Don't put copper into the wine without doing bench trials first.

 

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

Don't put copper into the wine without doing bench trials first.

Thanks, I wont rush into anything.

But I'm still wondering. Does soaking copper in wine pose a health risk to myself and others? I've read against using galvanized steel, aluminium, I'm sure lead is a big no-no. Just wondering where copper stands.

 

[sour_grapes]

Yes, it is possible to get an unhealthy amount of copper from such steps. At low pH, copper can be dissolved a a good clip, and can lead to an unhealthy dose. I am being deliberately vague because I do not have numbers, but the dissolution rate increases orders of magnitude as pH goes down.

 

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

Thanks sour grapes. I'll do my own research, just seeing what you guys had to say. I drew about an ounce tonight, still smells terrible. I tried swirling the glass, still bad. I tried the penny again, and after a few minutes, there was a noticeable difference.

There may be hope yet. Going to wait a bit before I check on the glass again.

Now the other identical kit that I didn't mess with is getting pretty clear and tastes like, you guessed it, apricots

 

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

Hi everyone been busy lately so haven't been on here much.

I decided to check on my batch again tonight and the smell/taste is nearly gone. It looks like the combination of splash racking and time have helped so I gave it another splash racking to see if that would clear things up further.

Things are looking up for this batch

 

[G259]

Just a little copper in todays pennies, found this online:

'The coppery color of modern-day pennies is merely a thin plating of copper on a 99.2% zinc, 0.8% copper core. These newer, zinc-based Lincoln cents are often called Zincolns and are widely available in circulation today. Older copper pennies are 95% copper and 5% something else.'

'Older' I think means pre-1960 (wheat backed) cents.
Although, I think they added more zinc (or something) in 1982(?)

 

[sour_grapes]

Just a little copper in todays pennies, found this online:

'The coppery color of modern-day pennies is merely a thin plating of copper on a 99.2% zinc, 0.8% copper core. These newer, zinc-based Lincoln cents are often called Zincolns and are widely available in circulation today. Older copper pennies are 95% copper and 5% something else.'

'Older' I think means pre-1960 (wheat backed) cents.
Although, I think they added more zinc (or something) in 1982(?)

Yes, true, but in a wine-making context, this does not matter. The wine is only in contact with the outside. In other words, the wine does not "know" how old your penny is.

 

[G259]

True, but I was merely pointing that out because of the possibility of getting too much copper in your system. It seems unlikely with todays pennies.

 

[ThreeSheetsToTheWind]

Just thought I'd check back in and testify to the miracle of splash racking.

It's totally, completely gone. Not even a hint of it left. I added k meta just to be on the safe side after so much aeration, but the batch seems fine to me. Gonna let it sit a while longer before I bottle it though.

But this really blew me away I thought I'd never get that smell out. I came very close to dumping it at first

 

[G259]

Good info, I have an apple/apricot going, and we'll see if any smells pop up. I don't recall any off odors though, I started it on 2/11, and it's completely clear now. I just had to use a lot of yeast to get it to ferment completely, as sulphites prevent yeast reproduction.

 

[user 36973]

Even tho I could just google this, I’d prefer to hear it in winemaking terms. What is the relationship between hydrogen sulphide and sulphites in wine?

Is this a correct statement?
So2 can prevent H2S, but too much So2 can cause H2s.

No, Sulfites (H2SO3) protect against oxidation and act as an antimicrobial. Sulfides (S2-) are produced by stressed yeast due to insufficient nutrients or excess high fermentation temps. There is no direct relationship between Sulfites and sulfides. Sulfites won't cause or prevent sulfide formation.

Prevention is the key for sulfides. Feed the yeast with DAP or some fermaid formulation as needed. Keep temperature under control. Use grapes that have not been sprayed with sulfur late in the season.

Copper sulfate is the solution to H2S if you get it in your wine. Small additions will resolve the issue without poisoning you from excess copper.

 

[SVEN]

Going back to my lab-rat days 45 years ago, we were synthesizing alpha-cyanoacrylates. One of the by-products of the reactants was hydrogen sulfide which was removed via a vacuum pump. Prior to entering the vacuum pump, a pure copper-meshed scrubbing pad was placed inline. This effectively removed the hydrogen sulfide. If the Cu+2 pad was not used, you would thoroughly corrode/destroy a $1000 vacuum pump. I only made this mistake.........once. :-0

 

[SVEN]

My suggestion would be to decant a quantity of wine through the Cu+2 pad and check for reduction in hydrogen sulfide.