WineXpert WE Selection Enigma

[jgmann67]

Um, that will change the taste. Maybe not by much, if you only add a little. You'll restart fermentation doing this if you aren't properly sulfited and sorbated.

Yep. And that begs the question - what will it do to the final ABV?

 

[ceeaton]

Got an interesting suggestion from the folks at LP. To improve color and body, without changing the taste, they suggest adding some red grape concentrate before moving to stabilizing the wine.

I added about 3/4 of one of the red grape concentrates that Brad at our LHBS offered to me when we were discussing adding a grape pack to the VR Diablo Rojo kit I made. He had used it on one of his wild beer recipes he concocts from time to time, and just had it sitting the fridge in the back. The kit definitely does not lack body, but how much was from the grape concentrate and how much was from the 6 lbs of skins I put in? Also the concentrate went in at the beginning, not at the end, so can't address that one since the kit went to .992 (checked notes 0.991) I think (not near my notes, should be working...).

 

[Boatboy24]

Yep. And that begs the question - what will it do to the final ABV?

Nothing, if you have proper sulfite and sorbate levels (you won't restart fermentation). But it will sweeten the wine.

 

[jgmann67]

Nothing, if you have proper sulfite and sorbate levels (you won't restart fermentation). But it will sweeten the wine.

The folks at LP specifically said to add the concentrate prior to adding sulfites and clarifiers and that it would restart fermentation. so does that increase the ABV? Here's what Matt said:

I would say that prior to Stage 3 (stabilizing with Sorbate), taste the wine. If it is too light, you could always add a liter of red Grape Concentrate (Item 6377) to boost the body and mouth feel. The 6377 is triple strength and so adding 1 liter is like adding 3 liters of juice and would make your 16 liter kit effectively a 19 L kit. Make sure to keep the wine in a warm area so that it gets fermentation started again and add the concentrate prior to killing off yeast.

 

[sour_grapes]

Yes, in this case it will raise the ABV. Might take a little work to figure out how much. Fermcalc would be your friend for this.

The concentrate is 68 brix, according to LP.

 

[ceeaton]

Jim, I am of no help. Added 64 oz Welches Red grape juice and .75L of the red grape concentrate in place of some of the water that was used to top the kit to 23L. My initial SG was 1.103 (adj), I figure the Diablo Rojo kit might be 1.085 to start? I think your math problem is easier, let Paul figure it out, he's the Physics, I'm only comp sci/math.

You could just say "Guaranteed ABV of at least 14%" on your label? Or even "Two glasses guaranteed to kick your butt"?

 

[jgmann67]

I could see going up another 1/2 or so %. But, I don't want to make this too hot. Perhaps pulling 750ml of the wine out and replacing it with concentrate and tannin rich extra to finish the fermentation in the Carboy?

 

[sour_grapes]

let Paul figure it out, he's the Physics, I'm only comp sci/math.

Sure, "Tom Sawyer" me into it!

It was an easier problem than I first thought. Taking at face value your initial SG of 1.093, and assuming 23 liters, and then adding a liter at 1.337 SG (which is what I looked up for 68 Brix), this would correspond to a starting SG of 1.103 and 24 liters volume. If fermented dry (I chose 0.993), you would get an ABV of about 14.4%.

 

[jgmann67]

Hey, I'm just a simple country lawyer, so these calculations are tantamount to voodoo to me.

So, I'm fine regardless if I do .750 or the full liter. I was going to pull wine and replace it with concentrate. But, The glass Carboy can probably handle all of that wine if I don't.

 

[jgmann67]

So here's what I did.

I thiefed about 500 ml from the carboy and replaced it with concentrate. Stirred and capped it with a bubbler.

Pre addition SG was 0.990. Post juice concentrate is 1.002.

I'm not sure that fermentation will restart and, if it does, how quickly it will ferment back to dry. I'll keep an eye on it over the next few days and see if it moves.

Question: I picked up some RC212 yeast. What happens if I rehydrate half a pack and pour it in??

 

[ceeaton]

That seems like an awfully big jump for 1/2 a litre of that stuff. I though Paul's calculation for the whole thing didn't go that high. Try doing a SG reading tomorrow a.m. before work after it gets integrated a little better.

Also, you didn't rack this yet, right? I'd think when you stirred it up there is enough yeast hanging out it should start up just fine. If not, why put 1/2 the yeast pack in unless you are using the other 1/2 for something else. They are cheap enough, and unless I'm missing something, any excess yeast will just settle out and become part of the gross lees.

 

[jgmann67]

Sorry... Typo. SG - 1.002. =)

It's in the Carboy now, finishing fermentation. I've added nothing (except of course, juice concentrate).

You sent me some FT tannin rouge in that little baggy, right? Some might go in there, too, maybe.

 

[ceeaton]

Yes, the one baggie has 16g of FT Rouge that should be enough at max strength for two batches. The unopened little guy is the Tannin Extra Riche, I think that is meant for fine tuning your wine after fermentation but 4-6 weeks before bottling.

Watch the amount, I'm getting a sour taste that fades on all of the batches that I've added the FT Rouge. Not sure if that is the culprit or something else. Need to apply some science (ie. make one of the sour batches again without adding the FT Rouge). Darn, more wine, guess I'll have to step up the pace of my wine sampling program. If you could just age it faster...we need a wine time machine, that's the ticket!

 

[jgmann67]

BTW - Craig, the wine that I thefted out of the Carboy was placed in to one of those .375's, corked and placed in the fridge next to the (less than) half a liter of grape concentrate.

 

[ceeaton]

Is that destined to add back in later or will it become an official early sample? I think someone needs to invent a carboy lock that I can give the combination to my wife so I have to ask her to unlock them. I'm using the wine thief a little too much lately.

Those 375ml bottles will come in handy. Almost went over there today (was heading to the farmers market for catfish and shrimp for my son's birthday dinner tomorrow) but didn't want to deal with Friday traffic in the metropolis of Lemoyne.

 

[jgmann67]

I was there yesterday. No 375's except the clear ones. That's to add back later after I rack.

I dropped about 1/3 of a packet of RC212 in the Carboy and some really cool stuff is happening. I dropped some more in the Super Tuscan.

I think it was a good move.

 

[ceeaton]

You mean the expensive clear ones, right?

So what cool thing is happening? I'm assuming that it is fermenting again?

 

[jgmann67]

You mean the expensive clear ones, right?



So what cool thing is happening? I'm assuming that it is fermenting again?

Yes, the $32 clear one's... No thanks.

Yes - active fermentation. This should go back to 0.990 with no problem.

 

[jgmann67]

It's down to 0.994. Another few days, taste, then we're moving on to clearing stage.

 

[jgmann67]

Steady at 0.994. Supposed to transfer on Wednesday. Wonder if should I leave it be for a few more days... Yeah, of course I should.