What is normal - bad for new wine?

[HankRearden]

Just finished my second kit... It's awful.
Both were RJS Grand Cru kits - (Merlot and Pinot Noir) Both were 4 week kits. Both finished with a "funk" (rotten egg / puke)
No blame on RJS - just trying to figure out where I went wrong.

Admittedly, I skipped the sorbate/sulfite step, but in both cases, the funk had formed before these were required.

Seems like the Merlot - bottled about 6 weeks ago is less offensive, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is something that will disappear with age.

Is this characteristic of new wine? Will it go away?

 

[NorCal]

Classic H2S, the result of a struggling ferment. Nutrient, temperature or competition. A good splash rack can rid a good percentage of it. A good way to test is to put a splash into a glass, add something copper. If the smell goes away immediately, it's H2S.

 

[HankRearden]

Classic H2S, the result of a struggling ferment. Nutrient, temperature or competition. A good splash rack can rid a good percentage of it. A good way to test is to put a splash into a glass, add something copper. If the smell goes away immediately, it's H2S.

Well this time I added a bit of yeast nutrient even though the kit didn't call for it.
I also tried throwing a few pennies into a small glass and no dice.

First time around I was wondering whether my well water was to blame, but this time I used spring water.

 

[user 32114]

Old pennies or new pennies, old pennies better, cut a new penny in half and it is silver color, doubt the plating is even pure copper
Government at it's greedyist
Dawg





QUOTE=HankRearden;638701]Well this time I added a bit of yeast nutrient even though the kit didn't call for it.
I also tried throwing a few pennies into a small glass and no dice.

First time around I was wondering whether my well water was to blame, but this time I used spring water.[/QUOTE]

 

[salcoco]

for future kits, stir the must every day. keep temp in 65-75 deg range. add some yeast nutrient, not provided as part of kit, to the juice to start fermenting. also hydrate the yeast rather than just sprinkling it on top of juice. hydrate instructions are on back of yeast pack. monitor the specific gravity and rack wine in to secondary once fermentation is complete. rack again in three days off the sediment that may occur. then follow instructions for adding sulfur, sorbate , fining and degassing.

if you are not racking from primary to secondary at the proper time or doing the second rack at three days, wine sediment contains yeast that is searching for food and cannot find any. they become stressed and rotten egg smell or worse will occur. also follow good sanitation procedures for all fermenters and tools used.

 

[Scooter68]

salcoco - Great comments. Temp, Nutrient and anything that would stress the yeast.*

My last experience with the stink was temps fluctuation too much I believe.




* Now next time before I introduce the yeast to the wine - I'm thinking of playing some mood music. Like "Lets Get it on" by Marvin Gaye. No more stressed out Yeast Hey! Whatever it takes.

 

[HankRearden]

for future kits, stir the must every day. keep temp in 65-75 deg range. add some yeast nutrient, not provided as part of kit, to the juice to start fermenting. also hydrate the yeast rather than just sprinkling it on top of juice. hydrate instructions are on back of yeast pack. monitor the specific gravity and rack wine in to secondary once fermentation is complete. rack again in three days off the sediment that may occur. then follow instructions for adding sulfur, sorbate , fining and degassing.

if you are not racking from primary to secondary at the proper time or doing the second rack at three days, wine sediment contains yeast that is searching for food and cannot find any. they become stressed and rotten egg smell or worse will occur. also follow good sanitation procedures for all fermenters and tools used.

Makes perfect sense. Now I'm anxious to try again!

 

[sour_grapes]

Old pennies or new pennies, old pennies better, cut a new penny in half and it is silver color, doubt the plating is even pure copper
Government at it's greedyist
Dawg

Actually, I would say that this represents the Zinc Lobby at its greedyist. The government is being quite generous, as it costs more than $0.01 to make a penny.

The plating is, indeed, pure copper, so new pennies work just as well for this purpose as old pennies.

 

[Johnd]

The government is being quite generous, as it costs more than $0.01 to make a penny.

I've heard that several times. It's about time to quit making pennies and start rounding to the nearest nickel.

 

[sour_grapes]

I've heard that several times. It's about time to quit making pennies and start rounding to the nearest nickel.

I was not kidding about the zinc lobby: Don't Mess with the Penny Lobby

and http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2007/08/15/Jarden-Zinc-Products-lobbies-Congress-to-keep-the-1-cent-coin-from-going-extinct/stories/200708150320

 

[user 32114]

You know sour grapes every time you open your mouth I learn something new,, I did know it was zink and cost more, but did not know biout the copper,,
But I am here tto learn, lol
Dawg










UOTE=sour_grapes;638763]Actually, I would say that this represents the Zinc Lobby at its greedyist. The government is being quite generous, as it costs more than $0.01 to make a penny.

The plating is, indeed, pure copper, so new pennies work just as well for this purpose as old pennies.[/QUOTE]

 

[Johnd]

I was not kidding about the zinc lobby: Don't Mess with the Penny Lobby

and http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2007/08/15/Jarden-Zinc-Products-lobbies-Congress-to-keep-the-1-cent-coin-from-going-extinct/stories/200708150320

Thanks for the chucklers, leave it to politicians and lobbyists to make sure everyone keeps their slice of cheese. I'm surprised that the slide rule lobby ever allowed the calculator on the market, different times I guess. Maybe this new cat in DC will take it on, wonder how we could make him think it was his idea......

 

[HankRearden]

for future kits, stir the must every day. keep temp in 65-75 deg range. add some yeast nutrient, not provided as part of kit, to the juice to start fermenting. also hydrate the yeast rather than just sprinkling it on top of juice. hydrate instructions are on back of yeast pack. monitor the specific gravity and rack wine in to secondary once fermentation is complete. rack again in three days off the sediment that may occur. then follow instructions for adding sulfur, sorbate , fining and degassing.

if you are not racking from primary to secondary at the proper time or doing the second rack at three days, wine sediment contains yeast that is searching for food and cannot find any. they become stressed and rotten egg smell or worse will occur. also follow good sanitation procedures for all fermenters and tools used.

Should I stir every day including first ferment, second ferment, etc. ?

 

[DiscoStu]

Stir twice a day in primary. Let gravity drop below 1.010. People will probable dispute this number just trying to give you a starting point. Let chill in secondary 1-4 weeks. Again dispute. Just look at it, big chuck of yeast time to rack. A more experienced man's article.
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/extended.asp

 

[salcoco]

stir in primary as suggested. follow kit instructions as to when to rack, but usually it would be with sg=.998 or less. rack into new carboy. rack again in three days, this is not in instruction., but it removes wine of off gross lees, which can affect flavor, especially for kits with skins or wine from scratch that is crushed grapes. then proceed with degassing and stabilizing etc.

 

[Noontime]

I would also suggest, before making your next kit, to do a thorough cleaning and sanitizing of all your equipment. The process and equipment used can be very important, so if you write out a comprehensive explanation of exactly how you're making the wine, there might be some additional clues.

To give you some insight to your original question, young wine can be really stinky. What you're describing definitely sounds like there's some kind of flaw, but we've made plenty of wines that weren't very good at bottling but grew up into very good wines a year later.

 

[HankRearden]

for future kits, stir the must every day. keep temp in 65-75 deg range. add some yeast nutrient, not provided as part of kit, to the juice to start fermenting. also hydrate the yeast rather than just sprinkling it on top of juice. hydrate instructions are on back of yeast pack. monitor the specific gravity and rack wine in to secondary once fermentation is complete. rack again in three days off the sediment that may occur. then follow instructions for adding sulfur, sorbate , fining and degassing.

if you are not racking from primary to secondary at the proper time or doing the second rack at three days, wine sediment contains yeast that is searching for food and cannot find any. they become stressed and rotten egg smell or worse will occur. also follow good sanitation procedures for all fermenters and tools used.

Thank you! This worked.
I just finished a batch of Welchs as a test. Hydrated yeast, kept it cooler, stirred every day racked 3 days out. I also added a few bits of copper wire to the fermentation vessels.
I'm still avoiding sulfites and pasteurizing instead, but it's the best batch I've made with no H2S funk!

 

[heatherd]

Thank you! This worked.
I just finished a batch of Welchs as a test. Hydrated yeast, kept it cooler, stirred every day racked 3 days out. I also added a few bits of copper wire to the fermentation vessels.
I'm still avoiding sulfites and pasteurizing instead, but it's the best batch I've made with no H2S funk!

I have to say that pasteurizing wine is technically fine, but my guess is that it is not beneficial to the flavor. Potassium metabisulfite is a good way to stabilize.

 

[HankRearden]

I have to say that pasteurizing wine is technically fine, but my guess is that it is not beneficial to the flavor. Potassium metabisulfite is a good way to stabilize.

Sadly at this point in my winemaking career, you wouldn't know the difference

 

[NorCal]

I also added a few bits of copper wire to the fermentation vessels.

This is not the way I would go about eliminating H2S. While running water through copper pipes is perfectly safe, the same cannot be said of wine. The pH of wine causes the copper to disassociate itself from the pipe/wire and into solution. You don't want an uncontrolled amount of copper in your wine.

When copper sulfate is used to rid H2S,you use a very controlled amount and only enough that will precipitate out; you simply don't want residual copper in your wine.

The better path is to follow the suggestions of running a clean, healthy ferment and eliminate the cause of H2S, instead of treating the result.