What to do with a reading of about 1.011 or nearly 0% potential for grape wine within a week?

[bubblythorn]

My Hydrometer is reading about 1.011 SG or 0% potential alcohol after only a few days of primary fermentation. I have three batches and the reading is just about the same for each. One batch is 11 days old, the other is 6 days and the last only 4 days. Never saw evidence of primary fermentation but might have been to busy to see it. I also remember being relaxed about filling the airlocks because I thought I had about 7-10 days but should have filled each before the 5th day of fermentation. I did not stir or shake the buckets and even though I had a hydrometer I did not use it to check initial levels of sugar. The grapes were pretty sweet though. I suspect some wild fermentation started before I added yeast since one of my buckets started to smell of a very nice fermentation before I started since it took me a couple days to add all the grapes and I tried making several ways of crushing them.

Two of my batches look fine and smell fine to me. I don't smell the alcohol though. One batch has white mold spots on a thick layer of must on top. I might try to syphon the underlying liquid out?

Anyway any advice since I am flying blind as to the actual fermentation state of these batches? Should I add more sugar and more yeast, start secondary fermentation, or bottle them up? Did I miss the secondary fermentation phase and does that make my batches unsafe? I had one batch reach 1.011 without liquid in the airlock but it smells fine. Should I throw it out anyway?

 

[Rice_Guy]

first of all, Welcome to Wine Making Talk

With commercially produced grape I would assume that your initial gravity was 1.090 or this can make a wine of about 12%. I would assume that a fermentation occurred with yeast that were in the juice. You likely have about 11% alcohol. We could give you a better answer if you had taken an original gravity.
Fermentation wants to happen naturally, I can go back to grandpa recipes from the thirties and it just happened, they only waited for nature.
You didn’t mention metabisulphite or Campden tablets. Fermentations are cleaner if you use it. White spots are bad. This could be an aerobic mold. It could be a vinegar bacteria. Again metabisulphite is normal in the US, it helps prevent an infection. Another way we prevent infection is to reduce the head space and put it under air lock. You aren’t the only person to have a wine at 1.010 and finally rack to a carboy.

I would continue as if a normal fermentation happened and get the wine in a carboy with air lock.

 

[bubblythorn]

They are grapes grown from my fence. A little sweeter on average than commercial, but there were some sour ones mixed in, so you are probably right. I was trying to avoid sulfates on purpose as some of my family cannot drink wine with sulfates, but I think I will add a Camden tablet to the batch with mold.

I have read so much on wine making in the past few days, it is starting to all get jumbled in my head. I read that if you get an infection you can rack and add a tablet and it should be fine (aside from possibly flavor issues). But then it sounds like adding a sulfates towards the end is a way to shut down fermentation to make a sweet wine!?! So the SG will never go below 1.01 if I do that?

Also is there ever a stage where you would put it into a Carboy with reduced headspace and without an airlock (sealed)? I though I saw some indications of that. Is that only for a 0.98 SG wine that you are just settling?

 

[Ohio Bob]

First off... sulfates are toxic, I think you mean sulfites. Typically potassium metabisulfite (aka Kmeta).
Second... people that can not tolerate sulphites are an extreme minority. Sulphites are used at greater concentrations in commercial wines and dried fruits, and probably a lot more food products.
Third... Camden tablets are just a tablet form of sulphites.
Fourth... adding Kmeta towards the end of fermentation will not stop a fermentation, might not even slow it down.
Fifth... I don’t believe there is any circumstance where excessive headspace is allowable, unless SG is at least 1.020. And below that it should be air locked.

Check out the Morewine site for wine making manuals.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Wine is a preservation system:
Several variables are * pH (acidity) many families of food poisoning microbes do not grow if pH is less than 4. ,,, ie acid is good
Yeast do not like pH under 2.8. ,,, ie too much even kills yeast
*Air is required for many infections. ,,, ie keep the head space low and metabisulphite basically does the same by changing the redox potential.
*Tannin acts as an antioxidant. Red wine on the skins usually has OK tannin (what variety of grape) ,,, I use tannin as a flavor preservative. Soft tannin is astringent, hard tannins are bitter. (yuck)
*Alcohol over 5% kills most food poisoning organisms. 10% is better and 18% kills basically all microbes. BUT chemical reactions still happen making off flavors.
*Lack of fermentable sugar prevents most spoilage, but there are a few like Acetobacter which metabolize another carbon (alcohol) and make other molecules (ex vinegar)

Most of the shelf life issues are off flavor related due to oxidation of alcohol and fruity aromatics. Metabisulphite prevents oxidative chemical reactions. ,,, How long a shelf life do you want? ,,, In my experience I started to make over six months shelf life (off flavors) when I assumed that free SO2 was zero every time I racked/ manipulated the wine. ,,, Therefore add 0.20 gm per gallon. Today I add things that contain tannin besides metabisulphite

 

[bubblythorn]

Thank you. I did mean sulfites. My family has gotten sulfite free wine as well as sulfite free food for as long as I can remember. I seem to tolerate it though so, I will go ahead and add the Camden tablets to the contaminated wine and see if I can salvage it. Thanks for the clarification on the airlocks. I gathered that excess headspace under 1.020 was bad, maybe I asked my question in a confusing way!

 

[bubblythorn]

All the mold was sitting on must above the liquid, so maybe away from the alcohol? Don't have a way to measure pH but I think I know the alcohol now. I just made a fresh batch this evening and tested. It appears to have a potential alcohol content of a little over 9%. About 1.07 SG. It was very bubbly from the star san and hard to read. There might be some variation between batches, but I would expect not by much.

I don't know the variety, but they are small white grapes (almost seem seedless, but there is something vaguely crunchy there so I am not sure).

My siphon (never used before) was malfunctioning today and instead of siphoning wine seemed to be very efficiently aerating it on both ends (It was leaking air when pumped or even still). The agitation stirred up the sediment so I did not leave the lees. I ended up transferring with a measuring cup since that seemed to be agitating it less than my siphon. Anyway, it sounds like the thing to do with my very oxygen rich wine at this point is to put more Metabisulphite into even the batch with nothing growing in it. So much for my sulfate free wine..... I will try to order a new siphon.

 

[winemaker81]

Headspace is not a problem during fermentation and while the wine is outgassing. Kit wines provides evidence supporting this, as the instructions for 8 week kits state that topping up is not necessary, so the wine can rest in the carboy with 1 to 3 bottles-worth of headspace, and still turn out fine.

During a normal fermentation (4 to 10 day duration) the yeast are continuously producing CO2, which is emitting from the wine. This protects the wine from air (O2). Post-fermentation the trapped CO2 is emitted, so the wine is safe for a period in an open container, and for longer in an airlocked container.

How long is that period? I don't know and suspect that (like many things in winemaking) it depends on the situation.

My current practice is to move light wines and juices under airlock when the SG is between 1.020 and 1.010. Fruit, especially red grapes, I ferment down to "done", and may let them rest a few days after that before pressing. There is strong evidence that an extended maceration (EM) in an open container is safe for a number of weeks, but I'm not comfortable doing it, so I won't.

Once under airlock, I let the wine rest for 1 to 3 week before racking.


Don't go crazy with the K-meta. If you overdose the wine it's not fatal, but it produces a burnt match smell that will dissipate with sufficient time.

I add K-meta (1/4 tsp per 19-23 liters of wine, or 1 Campden per 4 liters) post-fermentation, at rackings, and at bottling time. If you have mold on the cap, don't add more than a double dose.

BTW -- were you punching the cap down daily? That prevents mold from growing on the cap.

 

[winemanden]

Wine is a preservation system:
Several variables are * pH (acidity) many families of food poisoning microbes do not grow if pH is less than 4. ,,, ie acid is good
Yeast do not like pH under 2.8. ,,, ie too much even kills yeast
*Air is required for many infections. ,,, ie keep the head space low and metabisulphite basically does the same by changing the redox potential.
*Tannin acts as an antioxidant. Red wine on the skins usually has OK tannin (what variety of grape) ,,, I use tannin as a flavor preservative. Soft tannin is astringent, hard tannins are bitter. (yuck)
*Alcohol over 5% kills most food poisoning organisms. 10% is better and 18% kills basically all microbes. BUT chemical reactions still happen making off flavors.
*Lack of fermentable sugar prevents most spoilage, but there are a few like Acetobacter which metabolize another carbon (alcohol) and make other molecules (ex vinegar)

Most of the shelf life issues are off flavor related due to oxidation of alcohol and fruity aromatics. Metabisulphite prevents oxidative chemical reactions. ,,, How long a shelf life do you want? ,,, In my experience I started to make over six months shelf life when I assumed that free SO2 was zero every time I racked/ manipulated the wine. ,,, Therefore add 0.20 gm per gallon. Today I add things that contain tannin besides metabisulphite

 

[winemanden]

Sorry!Got click happy there

 

[bubblythorn]

Headspace is not a problem during fermentation and while the wine is outgassing. Kit wines provides evidence supporting this, as the instructions for 8 week kits state that topping up is not necessary, so the wine can rest in the carboy with 1 to 3 bottles-worth of headspace, and still turn out fine.

During a normal fermentation (4 to 10 day duration) the yeast are continuously producing CO2, which is emitting from the wine. This protects the wine from air (O2). Post-fermentation the trapped CO2 is emitted, so the wine is safe for a period in an open container, and for longer in an airlocked container.

How long is that period? I don't know and suspect that (like many things in winemaking) it depends on the situation.

My current practice is to move light wines and juices under airlock when the SG is between 1.020 and 1.010. Fruit, especially red grapes, I ferment down to "done", and may let them rest a few days after that before pressing. There is strong evidence that an extended maceration (EM) in an open container is safe for a number of weeks, but I'm not comfortable doing it, so I won't.

Once under airlock, I let the wine rest for 1 to 3 week before racking.


Don't go crazy with the K-meta. If you overdose the wine it's not fatal, but it produces a burnt match smell that will dissipate with sufficient time.

I add K-meta (1/4 tsp per 19-23 liters of wine, or 1 Campden per 4 liters) post-fermentation, at rackings, and at bottling time. If you have mold on the cap, don't add more than a double dose.

BTW -- were you punching the cap down daily? That prevents mold from growing on the cap.

So does that mean since my wine is finishing secondary fermentation and degassing CO2, that the oxygenation from the leaky siphon is not as much an issue and I don't have to put K-meta i it?

 

[winemaker81]

So does that mean since my wine is finishing secondary fermentation and degassing CO2, that the oxygenation from the leaky siphon is not as much an issue and I don't have to put K-meta i it?

No. There is a huge difference between wine being in a container with a temporary CO2 buffer, and one that has O2 being introduced into the wine.

During fermentation the must should be stirred / punched down at least once per day, which prevents the growth of unwanted microbial life on the cap. It also introduces O2, which yeast needs for reproduction during the fermentation. Once fermentation is complete, you do NOT want to introduce O2 to the wine.

Add K-meta at each racking, once fermentation is complete.

 

[Jovimaple]

@bubblythorn Welcome to WMT!

Wine takes a while to outgas all the CO2 created as the yeast turn sugar into alcohol. After active fermentation (which many of us do in an open bucket, covered with a towel or a loose cover to keep bugs and dust out), you always want to use an airlock or a vented bung until it's done outgassing, a process that takes months. That also gives time for any remaining yeast to finish fermenting any remaining sugars, which produces more CO2.

I never use a solid bung in my carboys at any point. The only time I could potentially see myself using a solid bung is if I were aging a wine for 2 or more years. I would be comfortable changing to a solid bung only after a year or so.

 

[Rice_Guy]

So does that mean since my wine is finishing secondary fermentation and degassing CO2, that the oxygenation from the leaky siphon is not as much an issue and I don't have to put K-meta i it?

I would tweak a few of Bryan’s comments. Wine should “rest under air lock for one to three weeks“ after the point where the active bubbling stops. While there is turbulence from bubbling it is mixing, ,,, and it looks pretty if we give it time for dead cells to settle out. Next; You mentioned white grape, this has limited polyphenol content, ie little antioxidant. When the yeast stop actively reproducing we are wise to limit oxygen, therefore in a normal grape or fruit wine it is good to get under air lock when the sugar drops to 1.050. Oxygen chemically combines with alcohol making a flavor called acetaldehyde, how long is variable on the wine. Folks start identifying the flavor at about 1% concentration, but tannin hides it, acid hides it, sharp notes like cranber hit it etc. ,,, BUT acetaldehyde is the hangover chemical that Antabuse (drug in alcoholism treatment) magnifies.

 

[rhodesengr]

My Hydrometer is reading about 1.011 SG or 0% potential alcohol after only a few days of primary fermentation.

What was the starting SG? Maybe you mentioned it but I didn't see it? I made plum wine in July with a starting SG of around 1.095. Only took 5 days to get down to 1.010 or so. So your time frame isn't off-normal.
Did you add an actual wine yeast or just use the wild yeast on your grape. I used EC-1118 and once I learned how t properly start that yeast, fermentation was pretty obvious within 12 hours.

 

[Raptor99]

When the yeast stop actively reproducing we are wise to limit oxygen, therefore in a normal grape or fruit wine it is good to get under air lock when the sugar drops to 1.050.

Many people on WMT say that they rack into a carboy around 1.010, so this is a lot earlier. It makes sense that once the yeast stop reproducing, they no longer need oxygen. But I have always wondered what tells the yeast to stop reproducing. Is it:
* The alcohol level?
* The concentration of yeast cells in the wine?
* The percentage of sugar that has been consumed?
* The amount of nutrients available?

It seems to me that the point at which yeast stop reproducing will vary quite a bit depending on conditions. For a cider, with an OG of 1.050, maybe they stop reproducing around 1.030 or 1.025. Mead makers stop adding nutrients on SNA when the mead reaches the 1/3 sugar break.

 

[winemaker81]

Following on to @Raptor99's questions, do I care when yeast stop reproducing? Upon reflection, it seems more important that they are eating.

Is nutrient required only for reproduction, or is it for yeast general health while eating?

The point of pressing/racking appears strongly dependent upon the situation. If I'm making a lighter wine where aromatics are more important, racking early to preserve aromatics seems important. From my experience, if I'm making wine from heavy fruit (e.g., elderberry or red grapes) then longer contact with the skins is the critical thing to get more color/stuff from the fruit.

Like most things in winemaking, the answers appear to be dependent upon situation.

 

[Charles DeVier]

It's been my experience with red grapes that the primary fermentation can start within a few hours. You said that you added grapes over a "couple of days", so your fermentation started the first day.
My wife is also reacts to sulphites, so this year I did not add any at the start. I raise my own grapes, they are clean and that white powder on their skin is yeast. However, being a coward, I did add a package of yeast.
Neither will I add any sulphite later, even at bottling. I will leave it in the 5 gallon carboy for over a year with an airlock. I do use Star-san on all on the equipment, but never on the grapes.

 

[Charles DeVier]

I don't know why you are having trouble with the new siphon. Put it in a a bucket of water and play with it. You will figure it out. Also, you could have done it the old way.. Remove the plastic tube and suck on the end to get it started. I did this for years until I got "educated".

 

[winemaker81]

However, being a coward, I did add a package of yeast.

I beg to differ. Adding known yeast is risk management. There are potentially thousands of strains of wine yeast, and unless a vineyard's indigenous yeast is a known quantity, adding commercial yeast eliminates a random variable.