What would be considered high or low acid?

[crabjoe]

What does everyone consider a high or low acid wine in terms of PH?

Are musts that are <3.4 high, 3.4-3.6 medium and >3.7 low acid?

Yes I understand one might not taste the acid because of the residual or added sugar (backsweet), but when starting a wine, where should someone have their PH adjusted to if they want a high, moderate, or low acid wine?

Thanks!

 

[Ajmassa]

Taking the infinite amount of different variables out of the equation - for red wine they say the magic number is 3.6.
And if your gonna lean a couple ticks away it’s best to lean down. At least for us as home winemakers IMO.
Having an ideal ph is huge for a lot of reasons. High ph wines are needy. Lots more so2 needed. More than most are comfortable with. And less acid protection means more prone to microbial issues & less aging ability .

I’ve made a few different cabs from grapes. One was at 3.4 (Chilean). Another 3.9 (Cali) Both balanced and very good wines. Low ph’s always do what their told. High ph’s- not to be trusted, gotta keep your eye on them!

 

[Ajmassa]

You should also check out @Norcal’s thread “Commercial wine vs Homemade and what I’m doing to bridge the gap”

Some great info in there about adjusting high ph musts pre ferment. Adjusting to under 3.6. Dialing it in better pre AF while accounting for AF and mlf to knock it back up a few ticks. And hoping to land at in ideal range avoiding something uncomfortably high

 

[cmason1957]

And for white wine, 3.1-3.3 is usually considered a good pH to start. And I can't tell you a good starting ta, I never measure it.

 

[bluecrab]

Here’s guidance from the Australian Wine Research Institute (AWRI).

“It is best to adjust the acid as early as possible because juice and wine are more stable at lower pH. In the case of red musts, it is advisable to adjust the pH to 3.4 or lower. If the desirable TA cannot be achieved, then the must should be adjusted to pH 3.4 regardless of the amount of tartaric acid required to do so. Note that a large amount of the added acid will precipitate later as KHT, resulting in a decrease in the TA. Given that the pH of red wines is likely to rise during fermentation, due to the leaching of potassium ions from the skins, it is recommended that the pH be measured during fermentation on skins and that additions be made to maintain the pH in the range 3.4 – 3.5.”

https://www.awri.com.au/industry_su...es/frequently_asked_questions/acidity_and_ph/

 

[Rice_Guy]

Process stability is the pH issue. Basically from a food health I agree with everybody above that wants a low pH. The bottom of this is where yeast don't like the must and we have a stuck fermentation, , , roughly pH 3.0.

consider a high or low acid wine in terms of PH?
Yes I understand one might not taste the acid because of the residual or added sugar (backsweet), but when starting a wine, where should someone have their PH adjusted to if they want a high, moderate, or low acid wine?

Taste/ flavor balance is a different issue, for this I use TA and don't really use pH (graphic). Example: a cola with a pH of 2.5 will score well in taste panel since the TA is extremely low 0.2%. At pH 2.5 yeast and basically all food pathogens can't reproduce, so, , , you can't make wine at pH 2.5.
YES , , , there are flavor exceptions! not all wines fall on the line

 

[cmason1957]

Process stability is the pH issue. Basically from a food health I agree with everybody above that wants a low pH. The bottom of this is where yeast don't like the must and we have a stuck fermentation, , , roughly pH 3.0.
Taste/ flavor balance is a different issue, for this I use TA and don't really use pH (graphic). Example: a cola with a pH of 2.5 will score well in taste panel since the TA is extremely low 0.2%. At pH 2.5 yeast and basically all food pathogens can't reproduce, so, , , you can't make wine at pH 2.5.
YES , , , there are flavor exceptions! not all wines fall on the line

OFF TOPIC POST - well maybe not. I seem to recall a news story from several years ago. Probably back when my knees worked like they should. A lady sued some soda manufacturer (perhaps the one from Atlanta) claiming a mouse (maybe just a mouse hair) had somehow been packaged in her soda. So the company took information from the can, figured out when and where produced, put a mouse into a can and sealed it up. Opened it up and there was not a trace of the mouse left. Just goes to show what a truly acidic environment will do. I imagine if you did the same thing with wine most of the mouse might make it.

 

[crabjoe]

OFF TOPIC POST - well maybe not. I seem to recall a news story from several years ago. Probably back when my knees worked like they should. A lady sued some soda manufacturer (perhaps the one from Atlanta) claiming a mouse (maybe just a mouse hair) had somehow been packaged in her soda. So the company took information from the can, figured out when and where produced, put a mouse into a can and sealed it up. Opened it up and there was not a trace of the mouse left. Just goes to show what a truly acidic environment will do. I imagine if you did the same thing with wine most of the mouse might make it.

I had to google it and found this article.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/11/...i-dr-pepper-can-rodent-soda-container-history

In the article there's a YT video of someone putting a mouse in Mountain Dew to see what happens in 30 days.