What's the best way to control fermentation temperature?
- Thread starter REDRUM
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grenache is a veriety thats hard to pull colour out of , a nice hot ferment helps maximise colour and phenolics .
unless your ferment is getting so hot your yeast is stressing out ( in which case you could throw in a few frozen water jugs as a heat wave intervention) I wouldn't do much more than punch down 4 x a day , select a yeast that is both heat tollerant and has a moderate fermentation speed ( d80 & d254 come to mind) and avoid using pure dap for nutirent (use fermaid K instead) to avoid a really peaky ferment .
if your grapes are coming out of cold storage anyway and your batches are less than a tonne in a single fermenter heat shouldnt be a big problem compared to a 5 tonne batch straight out of a warm vineyard .
deviding the batches into a couple smaller fermenters is also an option. the smaller the batch , the less heat. anything larger than a half tonne picking bin might get hot , anything smaller , no worries .
if you lived in Darwin it might be more of an issue.
relax.
unless your ferment is getting so hot your yeast is stressing out ( in which case you could throw in a few frozen water jugs as a heat wave intervention) I wouldn't do much more than punch down 4 x a day , select a yeast that is both heat tollerant and has a moderate fermentation speed ( d80 & d254 come to mind) and avoid using pure dap for nutirent (use fermaid K instead) to avoid a really peaky ferment .
if your grapes are coming out of cold storage anyway and your batches are less than a tonne in a single fermenter heat shouldnt be a big problem compared to a 5 tonne batch straight out of a warm vineyard .
deviding the batches into a couple smaller fermenters is also an option. the smaller the batch , the less heat. anything larger than a half tonne picking bin might get hot , anything smaller , no worries .
if you lived in Darwin it might be more of an issue.
relax.
Last edited:
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
Cheers 
Now it looks like we will be doing a Grenache / Shiraz co-ferment. Does anyone have any advice as to ideal time for maceration on skins for optimal colour / flavour extraction but not too tannic?
Now it looks like we will be doing a Grenache / Shiraz co-ferment. Does anyone have any advice as to ideal time for maceration on skins for optimal colour / flavour extraction but not too tannic?
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
Good question, I can confirm that warmer temperatures tend to lead to a darker wine, while cooler temperatures lead to a fruitier style wine. I can also vouch for a cold soak doing a good job at extracting flavour, colour and sugar from grapes. Perhaps someone with more grape wine experience than me can comment.
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
Temperature control will be largely left to the whims of Bacchus I think - so I guess rule of thumb: if it's cool, leave it for longer, if it's hot, don't leave it so long. 
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
Perhaps, I would be worried about spoilage at high temperature without fermentation or post fermentation. However, during the ferment all should be good.
Also, no one made a rule that said you cant taste the wine to see if its getting a wee bit too tanic too soon (;
Also, no one made a rule that said you cant taste the wine to see if its getting a wee bit too tanic too soon (;
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
OK - got me some Campden tabs, some wine yeast & a fermentation bucket, picking the grapes tomorrow & Saturday, wish me luck!
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
I have another quick question:
I am picking Shiraz tomorrow and Grenache the day after but I want the grapes to ferment together. Should I sterilise the Shiraz with campden tabs immediately to stop fermentation from starting with wild yeasts, or wait until I add the other grapes the next day and chuck the tabs in then?
And after that, how long should I wait to pitch in the wine yeast (Lalvin Bourgovin RC212) - about a day?
Cheers
I am picking Shiraz tomorrow and Grenache the day after but I want the grapes to ferment together. Should I sterilise the Shiraz with campden tabs immediately to stop fermentation from starting with wild yeasts, or wait until I add the other grapes the next day and chuck the tabs in then?
And after that, how long should I wait to pitch in the wine yeast (Lalvin Bourgovin RC212) - about a day?
Cheers
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
I would go ahead and add Kmeta for the appropriate amount for the Shiraz, and once the Grenache arrives go ahead and add the needed amount for it. Just make sure that the grapes are not presulfited. I would go ahead and make yourself a good starter in the meantime and pitch a day after you sulfite the second half.
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
I have a 30L fermenter bubbling away now at a nice even 22C (72F). Ended up being about 65% Grenache, 35% Shiraz. We are living in an apartment at the moment so have the wine out on the balcony, well insulated with a blanket to hopefully avoid too much temperature fluctuation - weather for the next week looks nice and mild, but I have some water bottles in the freezer to dangle in the must in case it starts heating up too much.
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how about some pictures? It never really happened unless we see some pictures!
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
Haha! Well here is the 2014 Verandah d'Ascot Grenache Shiraz in its infancy:
There are a few photos of the harvest & the crush in this thread:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f25/harvest-south-australia-43881/
There are a few photos of the harvest & the crush in this thread:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f25/harvest-south-australia-43881/
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
So, I pressed the wine after it was sitting on skins for 2 weeks - tried to press with a potato masher which kind of worked, but gave up after bending the metal & breaking the implement, and switched to using a combination of coffee plunger and bare hands. Not ideal at all, after I was done the whole place looked like a scene from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Anyway, managed to get all the wine into a 15L glass demijohn (was the perfect size, starting with 25L must) and added more K-meta.
I have had a winemaker friend come and check it out & run some tests at the lab at his workplace, all the numbers look good, the wine is clean & bright but much lighter in colour than perhaps it should be. Grenache is usually a fairly light red but the shiraz component should have given it a much deeper colour after that much time on skins. I thought maybe my inadequate pressing might have meant less colour extraction but he reckons that maybe I just used grapes that were not quite ripe enough at harvest. Any thoughts? This one might just turn out to be a nice rosé style....
Anyway, he gave me some malolactic bacterial culture to innoculate with, which is good because it's bloody expensive to buy the packet stuff down at my local homebrew shop!
Anyway, managed to get all the wine into a 15L glass demijohn (was the perfect size, starting with 25L must) and added more K-meta.
I have had a winemaker friend come and check it out & run some tests at the lab at his workplace, all the numbers look good, the wine is clean & bright but much lighter in colour than perhaps it should be. Grenache is usually a fairly light red but the shiraz component should have given it a much deeper colour after that much time on skins. I thought maybe my inadequate pressing might have meant less colour extraction but he reckons that maybe I just used grapes that were not quite ripe enough at harvest. Any thoughts? This one might just turn out to be a nice rosé style....
Anyway, he gave me some malolactic bacterial culture to innoculate with, which is good because it's bloody expensive to buy the packet stuff down at my local homebrew shop!
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REDRUM, why not try the Redneck Wine Press..
Parts: Total cost should be about $15 (usd)
-Get two 5 gallon plastic buckets (they should be the same size and shape so that one can tightly stack inside the other).
-a bucket the size/shape of your average wash tub. A plastic demi-john bucket works great here.
-two 12 inch oak boards about 18 or 20 inches long. The wood should be clean and unused and preferably made of oak.
Construction:
Make a "strainer bucket" by riddling one 5 gallon bucket with 3/8 inch holes (about 1/2 inch apart) all over the bottom and sides.
Leave the other 5 gallon bucket in tact (no holes). This will be our "plunger bucket".
Pressing:
Place one of the boards into your wash tub,
Place the strainer (or the bucket with all of the holes) inside the wash tub (on top of the board)
Fill the strainer 2/3 full with your fermented red grapes. and allow the "free-run" juice to drain.
Place the plunger bucket (the one without any holes) inside the strainer bucket bucket (the one with holes).
Place the second board on top of the plunger bucket.
Sit down on the board.
Have your wife bring you a glass of wine. You would get it yourself, except you are busy pressing your wine.
When wine stops flowing, empty your wash tub into your carboy and repeat the process.
One of the things I like to do is to run through all of my grapes, save skins them in a clean container, then press all of the skins a second time. I think you will be shocked at how dry those skins will be once you are finished.
I know a number of people that press this way. I would not recommend it if you are doing a huge amount of wine, but it sure does work great for batches under 15 gallons or so.
Parts: Total cost should be about $15 (usd)
-Get two 5 gallon plastic buckets (they should be the same size and shape so that one can tightly stack inside the other).
-a bucket the size/shape of your average wash tub. A plastic demi-john bucket works great here.
-two 12 inch oak boards about 18 or 20 inches long. The wood should be clean and unused and preferably made of oak.
Construction:
Make a "strainer bucket" by riddling one 5 gallon bucket with 3/8 inch holes (about 1/2 inch apart) all over the bottom and sides.
Leave the other 5 gallon bucket in tact (no holes). This will be our "plunger bucket".
Pressing:
Place one of the boards into your wash tub,
Place the strainer (or the bucket with all of the holes) inside the wash tub (on top of the board)
Fill the strainer 2/3 full with your fermented red grapes. and allow the "free-run" juice to drain.
Place the plunger bucket (the one without any holes) inside the strainer bucket bucket (the one with holes).
Place the second board on top of the plunger bucket.
Sit down on the board.
Have your wife bring you a glass of wine. You would get it yourself, except you are busy pressing your wine.
When wine stops flowing, empty your wash tub into your carboy and repeat the process.
One of the things I like to do is to run through all of my grapes, save skins them in a clean container, then press all of the skins a second time. I think you will be shocked at how dry those skins will be once you are finished.
I know a number of people that press this way. I would not recommend it if you are doing a huge amount of wine, but it sure does work great for batches under 15 gallons or so.
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
I have pressed in a way similar to that before. Its a PAIN, but it does work and it works pretty well actually.
REDRUM
Vinthropologist
I like the sound of that setup! Next time...
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