when good wines gone bad

[LoneStarLori]

Each of the kits I have done say to add wood to the primary, then rack off when going to the secondary. But I have used new chips or cubes in the secondary. For my Sangiovese I used Med toast Hungarian oak cubes in the secondary and the chips they provided with the kit for the primary.

 

[joeswine]

A story about wood

Effects on wine


The effect of oak aging on red wine color: the above samples are both Penedès region Cabernet Sauvignon varietals; on the left, a two-year-old cosecha; on the right a six-year-old crianza. As the wine matures, its color shifts from deep purple or crimson to a lighter brick-red and takes on a more graduated appearance in the glass.


The porous nature of an oak barrel allows some levels of evaporation and oxygenation to occur in wine but typically not at levels that would cause oxidation or spoilage of the wine. In a year, the typical 59-gallon (225-liter) barrel can lose anywhere from 5½ to 6½ gallons (21 to 25 liters) of wine through the course of evaporation. This evaporation (of mostly alcohol and water) allows the wine to concentrate its flavor and aroma compounds. Small amounts of oxygen are allowed to pass through the barrel and act as a softening agent upon the tannins of the wine.[3]
The chemical properties of oak itself can have a profound effect on the wine. Phenols within the wood interact with the wine to produce vanilla type flavors and can give the impression of tea notes or sweetness. The degree of "toast" on the barrel can also impart different properties affecting the tannin levels of the wine as well as the aggressive wood flavors.[5] The hydrolyzable tannins present in wood, known as ellagitannins, are derived from lignin structures in the wood. They help protect the wine from oxidation and reduction.[6]

Oak barrel aging sherry. It has a transparent front for people to see the process inside


Wines can be barrel fermented in oak or they can be placed in oak after fermentation for a period of aging or maturation. Wine that is matured in oak receives more of the oak flavors and properties than wine that is fermented in oak. This is because yeast cells interact with and "latch on" to the oak components. When the dead yeast cells are removed from the wine as lees, some of these oak properties go with them.[7] A characteristic of white wines that are fermented in oak include a pale color with an extra silky texture. White wines that are fermented in steel and then matured in oak will have a darker coloring due to the heavy phenolic compounds that are still present.[8] Flavor notes that are common descriptions of wines exposed to oak include caramel, cream, smoke, spice and vanilla. Chardonnay is a variety that has very distinct flavor profiles when fermented in oak that include coconut, cinnamon and cloves notes. The "toastiness" of the barrel can bring out varying degrees of mocha and toffee notes in red wine.[9]
The length of time that a wine spends in the barrel is dependent on the varietal and style of wine that the winemaker wishes to make. The majority of oak flavoring is imparted in the first few months that the wine is in contact with oak but a longer term exposure can affect the wine through the light aeration that the barrel allows which helps to precipitate the phenolic compounds and quickens the aging process of the wine.[8] New World Pinot noir may spend less than a year in oak. Premium Cabernet Sauvignon may spend two years. The very tannic Nebbiolo grape may spend four or more years in oak. High end Rioja producers will sometimes age their wines up to ten years in American oak to get a desired earthy cedar and herbal character.[7]
OAK CAN BE A PARTNERSHIP WHEN INCORPORATED IN THE PROPER MANOR WITH THE WINE PROCESS AND CAN CHANGE THE ENTIRE PROFILE OF A WINES TASTE IF NOT APPLIED PROPERLY ,BUT IT IS TO EACH WINE MAKERS TASTE THAT THE OAK CAN BE STRENGTHEN OR BE MADE SUTTLE .THERE ARE MANY FORMS THAT IT CAN COME IN AS WELL AS TEXTURES AND TOASTYNESS AND LIQUID AND CAN BE INSTALLED AT ANY PART OF THE PROCESS . THE USE OF OAK IS PROFILE ELEMENT AS WELL AS A TASTE ENHANCER

 

[sdelli]

Joe,
Just a thought for more conversation.... Effects of wood on wine... Tannins... Which ones... When and how much.
I am in the process of adding Tannin EX and spirals now....

 

[joeswine]

wood in the wine

THE question is ,WHEN and HOW MUCH,the answer is simple in wine making process, IN THE BEGINNING, in the primary or at least that's how we are taught to do it, right?

BUT that's not always correct, if you view oak as I do as direct additive or a (seasoning in the sauce), then it ceases to be only in the primary. OAK is and have always been added or the wine has been stored in wood, but that's not to say we can't add it at any other time.

EXAMPLE:I HAVE TWO BATCHES OF CHARDONNAY,one is process in wood after primary fermentation,the other has it's primary in stainless steel, both are the same base wine, one with wood and one with out, now take the two and blend them as one blend what did you do you added a Chardonnay with oak to a Chardonnay with out, the balance is outstanding when do like this ,FRANCES FORD COPPOLA CHARDONNAYS are done in this manor,and they are delightfully full, or another example : I made a Cabernet Sauvignon and in the primary I added 16 oz.. of oak chips, allowing for the process to move forward and after secondary, I notice the mouthfeel wasn't the profile I was looking for the taste was ok at present but the wine is still you, buy adding oak tannins at anytime in the process I know I can adjust the texture of the wine all the way up to the end,,,,,,,,,,,,,there is know time limit to the addition of oak in any format in my oppion, there has been times I have added liquid oak just prier to bottling ,it works.

YOU need TO THINK OUTSIDE THE TRADITIONAL BOX, to put your trademark on your wine...........


we are home wine makers we have rules = to follow we also have the ability to= separate us from the big boys we can have more fun

 

[LoneStarLori]

we are home wine makers we have rules = to follow we also have the ability to= separate us from the big boys we can have more fun[/QUOTE]


Well said Joe. And it makes it SO MUCH MORE FUN!

 

[ZeitGeist]

I have to thank Joe here for this thread. Thanks to the detail present I was able to save some very thin Cab & Malbec juice buckets. I had them in carboy on oak cubes for a year and they still weren't quite right. Added some tannin powder, let it sit for another month and that wine changed dramatically!
Thanks Joe!
Now I have a Winexpert Trinity Red I'm developing a plan for using some of the techniques you've outlined on this thread...and of course maybe some additional thinking outside the box!

 

[joeswine]

We are moving this forward because we plan on updating it very soon:

Moscato Wine:​

We have tasted it even though it's very young, it lacks character as well as ,not a true moscato taste so what to do, I think I'm going to put the zest of 1 grape fruit in and 1 orange, this then should pick up the brightness in the finis as well as give it a hint of sunshine as I remember a good MUSCATO has,bright,crisp and tasty.so follow us and we will help resurrect this kit and make it a wonderful wine to address at anytime

.

​

Here’s the process:

1. Add bentonite to the primary fermenter with ½ gallon warm water and stir it up until dissolved
2. Open up the large juice bag and dump it into the primary bucket
3. See the "musk" left over? Rinse that out w/ a little water. You don’t want to waste this, it’s extra yeast food and flavor!
4. Stir up everything in the bucket until well mixed up, then take your Specific Gravity (SG) reading. Ours reads 1.070.
5. Sprinkle the yeast on top and let sit, don’t stir. We are using Lalvin 1118. Moscato typically does not have oak. We are adding oak tannins and white California Sun-Maid raisins into the secondary to build up the mouth feel. (This we will show in pictures and text later on in the process.)
6. Now you cover the bucket with a towel so that your yeast can breath but so that dust and debris do not fall into your bucket. (If you have small children, I recommend putting a lid on it w/ a hole so that it can breath. Children and buckets of liquid do not mix.)
7. Now that we are done our primary fermentation and our Moscato is dry (our SG read 1.012, sorry I did not take a picture. FYI: This reading was right on target with the manufacture- Winexpert. We are right where we need to be) it is time for secondary fermentation.
8. Notice all the white, rehydrated raisins floating on top? We are going to strain them off the top and then rack this moscato down to a 6 gallon carboy.
9. Now it’s time for stabilizing. The kit came with a packet of potassium sorbate, K-Meta, and Chitosan for clearing. Add the packets of sorbate and K-met first, then the clearing agent. Then give your carboy a good stir.
10. Next, we add nitrogen gas to the carboy. (This is not necessary but I do it as a precaution. ) Now the hard part.. waiting..
11. As always, clean up your carboy right away so that it doesn’t get funky.
12. Stay tuned. The next post for this Winexpert Moscato kit is to check to see how clear it is. If it needs more clearing, We will apply more Super Kleer as required. (My preference of clearing agents.) Once it’s clear then it’s time for the F-Pak that came with the kit. Once it is clear and the F-pak is applied then we bottle, cork, and label.

 

[joeswine]

Here's the rest of our photos for this wine:​

 

[joeswine]

Final Picture (I promise!)

 

[joeswine]

Coffee port a winner again

THIS HAS PROVEN TO BE A FIRST CLASS WINE RECIPE ,CHECK IT OUT.......................

 

[joeswine]

Coffee port a winner again

Coffee port continued

​

Cru Coffee Port Kit​

The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

• After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy.
• We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it.
• We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port.
• We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir.
• Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.)

Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a

​

Cru Coffee Port Kit​

The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

• After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy.
• We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it.
• We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port.
• We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir.
• Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.)

Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a

​

Cru Coffee Port Kit​

The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

• After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy.
• We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it.
• We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port.
• We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir.
• Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.)

Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a

​

Cru Coffee Port Kit​

The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

• After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy.
• We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it.
• We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port.
• We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir.
• Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.)

Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a

 

[joeswine]

Adding tannins to the port

COFFEE PORT CONTINUED

 

[joeswine]

The bottling process

THE BOTTLING PROCESS MANUALLY

 

[beggarsu]

I suppose that's a drying tree? But I usually have to dry 30 bottles at once after sterilize with metasulphide and then rinse with hot water in the run up to bottling. I use an old dish rack over the sink and push the bottle necks through the wires so there is no contact with the bottle lips.
..
What is that square S shaped tool? What's going on over that frying pan?

How did all those corks get so even? I guess a big floor corker?


Are u manufacturing for sales or maybe u have a steadily increasing circle of friends heh!
--
U probably got enough quality production u could sell under license or something as a small business to quality gourmet outlets but I bet the government makes it too hard to do for anyone but big players with lots of capital.

 

[joeswine]

Coffee port express

YES,THATS A 45 BOTTLE TREE RACK,ONCE THEIR DONE DRYING THEY THEN GO INTO A DISHWASHER AFTER BEING DE LABELED AND SANITIZES.

THAT SQUARE THING IS A SEAL HOLD DOWN TOOL,DESIGNED TO HOLD DOWN THE SEAL AND KEEP IT IN THE PROPER PLACE WILL IN THE BOILING WATER.

YES A ITALIAN FLOOR CORKER IS WHAT I USE.CONSTANT PRESSURE IS APPLIES AT ALL TIMES AND USING THE RIGHT SIZE CORKS HELPS.


KNOW I DON'T MAKE A LOT ABOUT 100 GALLONS A YEAR ,BUT I HAVE SLOWED DOWN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS,NOT JUST MAKING AT RANDOM,BEING MORE SELECTIVE GIVES ME THE CHANCE TO MAKE A BETTER PRODUCT,IN OTHER WORDS,I TRY TO PRODUCE BETTER QUALITY NOTQUANTITY.

 

[beggarsu]

Thanks for the reply Joeswine

KNOW I DON'T MAKE A LOT ABOUT 100 GALLONS A YEAR ,BUT I HAVE SLOWED DOWN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS,

So with American gallons that's about 500 bottles a year - So I think a few medium size parties, holiday get togethers and BBQ's will take care of that easily along with special occasion gift lists.

How long is the oldest wine you've kept that has maintained it's undrinkability? I'm thinking optimum I should use up mine within 14 months? Though probably I guess they could go much longer.
..
Mine are from kits and fruit wine batches from summer fruits - rhubarb, raspberry, and crabapple - nothing extra special in the bottling process just done as per homemade wines.

 

[joeswine]

Age wines

SOME WINES HAVE THE ABILITY TO WITHSTAND THE HAND'S OF TIME QUITE WELL AND OTHERS NOT SO,IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE RAW MATERIAL YOU STARTED WITH ,YOUR SANITATION PRACTICES COUPLED WITH UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROCESS,THE OLDEST WINE I HAVE IS FROM 2004,NOT THAT GOOD AT THIS POINT FROM A TASTE PROFILE STANDARD,BUT SOME OF THE REDS ARE STILL QUITE DRINKABLE AND A FEW ARE QUITE GOOD.THE WINES IN THE MID RANGE 5 TO 6 YEARS OLD ESPECIALLY THE REDS ARE HOLDING UP VERY WELL SOME ARE PEAKING AND NEED TO BE CONSUMED ,THAT'S ME. TRADITIONALLY THE WHITES GO BEFORE THE REDS,THERE TASTE PROFILE diminishes AND OR THEY TEND,,TO DO HEAVY SEPERATION AS TIME GOES BY AND THAT IS THE REASON I've SLOWED DOWN ,JUST MY WIFE AND HER LADY FRIENDS ,IT'S A SLOW PURGE..

 

[Mikeleh]

Joe -

I have read this entire thread and I have to commend you on all of the hard work and how thorough you are on everything. I am going to try zesting my Pinot Grigio ( 6 gal juice ) with 2 lemons, oranges and grapefruits.

I never thought " outside of the box ". Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike from NJ

 

[joeswine]

Zesting pino

YOU CAN'T LOSE ,THAT'S MY THOUGHTS AND THANKS FOR FOLLOWING................ (MIKELEH).......................
IT'S BEING NEW IN THIS FIELD OF WINE MAKING OR FOR THAT MATTER HAVING YEARS OF GOOD AND NOT SO GOOD HABITS,CONSISTENCY IN THE PROCESS IS ALLTHAT'S REQUIRED. ,HOWEVER IF ONE LEARNS BAD HABITS AND TAKES SHORT CUTS OR DOESN'T APPLY THE PROCESS CORRECTLY,THEN YOU HEAR THE TERM ,"WELL IT'S HOW I LIKE IT" AND THAT'S OK ,BUT WHEN YOU TAKE THOSE SAME PRINCIPLES AND YOU AND YOUR WINE MOVE OUT INTO THE WINE WORLD (IN CONTEST) THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE,AND SOMETIMES IT CAN HURT YOUR EGO,BUT WHAT IT SHOULD REALLY BE TELLING YOU IS THERE IS SOMETHING VERY GOOD ABOUT YOUR APPLICATION /OF THE PROCESS OR NOT .THIS IS HOW I LOOK AT WINE MAKING,A MARRIAGE OF PROCESS, AND A CHOICE TO DIRECT THE FLAVOR OR REDIRECT THE FLAVOR TO MAKE THE OUTCOME YOURS AND AT THE SAME TIME AND THIS IS IMPORTANT,NOTEWORTHY TO YOUR PEERS AND PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THE WINE AND THE PROMISE BEHIND THE TASTE.

 

[LoneStarLori]

THIS IS HOW I LOOK AT WINE MAKING,A MARRIAGE OF PROCESS, AND A CHOICE TO DIRECT THE FLAVOR OR REDIRECT THE FLAVOR TO MAKE THE OUTCOME YOURS AND AT THE SAME TIME AND THIS IS IMPORTANT,NOTEWORTHY TO YOUR PEERS AND PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THE WINE AND THE PROMISE BEHIND THE TASTE.[/U][/I][/B][/FONT]

Well said Joe. Just like in marriage, you redirect your spouse to make the end result what you REALLY want.

I got my first ALL juice bucket today! So excited.
I can't start it till after Christmas, but I'm already dreaming of raisins and tannin.