when good wines gone bad

[roger80465]

This is a very interesting thread. I am being convinced to make the leap of faith and try this method.

I just took shipment of Cru Select BC Meritage and that came with dried cab/merlot skins and a pack of elderberries. I'm thinking about going half and half - add the cab/merlot in primary and the elderberries in secondary. What do you veterans of this method think - too conservative (AKA cowardly)? What would you do?

Roger

 

[joeswine]

Think out side the box

thank you ,Mr. d ,that's a nice complement ,all wine makers, once they have gotten their feet wet ,and have advanced and develop the confidence in there abilities should evolve in there work, I do believe every wine master out there whether at the largest vineyard or smallest at one time or another has to think out side the box, weather its to put his or hers touch or trademark ON the wine or to move it in a direction it needs to advance to (or loose it),we all THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX ,one time or another.

thank you once again ............

 

[bakervinyard]

Dave, Did you do or are you going to do a MLF ? Also did you chop the currents or add them whole ? My Chilian juice is coming in next Wednesday. Can't wait. Bakervinyard
PS Thanks Joe great thread. I'm learning alot.

 

[joeswine]

rasins in the wine

leave them whole............... BAKERVINYARD


ROGER..ELDERBERRIES IN THE SECONDARY,,I've DONE THIS BEFORE,IT WILL TURN OUT QUITE HERBAL AND FLORAL,BUT WITH A CHARDONNAY.

 

[roger80465]

Sounds like a plan Joe. Thanks for the advice. Just trying to imaging what 'herbal and floral' will be like in a Meritage. Should be interesting.

 

[joeswine]

roger

this is going to have a very romantic taste to it, with a Victorian feel, should be good, let your taste buds this time think outside the box.
yours jp

 

[Pumpkinman]

once your in the secondary no need for mlf,at least in my opinion,the raisins should cause a secondary on their own,got it?

One thing I want to point out to the newer folks, and those who aren't clear about Malolactic fermentation, as stated a few times:
you do not want to put a kit through a MLF, one of the reasons that kits are so popular is that Kits are already balanced and made so that you can make a good wine with little experience and equipment, by putting a kit through MLF you will no longer have that balance and the wine can become very "funky" real fast, a good rule of thumb is if you add sorbate, do not put your wine through MLF, it can take on bad tastes and smells.

By adding raisins to the secondary (something that I've been doing thanks to Joe's advice) you can put your wine through a secondary fermentation, a nice slow fermentation that has really given the few kits that I've tried nice character and taste, it will not put your Kit through Malolactic Fermentation, nor is it a substitution for Malolactic Fermentation, I believe that a few people were getting confused.

You can absolutely add raisins or currants to your Juice Pails and then put it through MLF as these are not wine kits and have not been balanced as kits are, but the addition of raisins or currants will not start a MLF, you usually need to start it with the various Malolactic Bacteria available, and there are times when MLF will start on its own if the conditions are right.

This is in no way meant to discredit Joe, I have a lot of respect for Joe and all of the help he gives everyone, I've tasted his wines and was totally blown away!
I was sent a PM about raisins and MLF and thought that I would try to clarify it for those who still had questions.

 

[joeswine]

Pumpkin man

I do not want to confuse anybody so feel Free any time to step in . I personally do not believe in MLF and the type of work that we do or at our level I have really never been successful with . I believe that the product that we are handed can and should be exercised to its fullest advantage,one should never do MLF a kit . I agree. E

 

[dangerdave]

Dave, Did you do or are you going to do a MLF ? Also did you chop the currents or add them whole ? My Chilian juice is coming in next Wednesday. Can't wait. Bakervinyard
PS Thanks Joe great thread. I'm learning alot.

Joe gives very good advice. Currants are very small when dried, so chopping them would be difficult absent a food processor. Joe also suggested leaving the raisins whole, which I put in my Petit Syrah---which I will be checking on tomorrow. I will let you know how that one turned out. I also have a Chilean muscatel that got a dose of mangos after fermentation. Gotta taste that one tomorrow, too.

I am excited about this technique. It seems to have a lot of advantages for the finished wine. Once again, thanks, Joe. You've got a new fan!

 

[shoebiedoo]

I just tried this on my Chilean syrah and it seems to have worked out great I still have to oak it but that will have to wait it's turn (for the barrel)

 

[eblasmn9]

There seems to be several of us in Joe's fan club. I started a Cellar Craft Showcase Amarone 40 days ago. It came with a really nice 2.6 k super grapepack. I switched out the yeast to bm45 from the ec1118 and did a yeast starter. Fermaid k was added halfway through fermentation. I added a pound of raisins whole in the secondary as well as oak powder as Joe suggested. I really like this thinking outside of the box. Joe helpful as he is, suggested I add a couple more tablespoons of oak powder when I rack off of the clearing lees which I'm about to do now. I will carboy age it for 6 months then run it through the almost neutral by then Vadai barrel for about 4 months maybe longer if I get another barrel. I'll bottle age it for a year then start the splits to see where its at. This one already has great aroma as well as mouth feel. I can't wait to see how it turns out. Thanks Joe.

 

[joeswine]

eblasmn9

sounds delicious all ready, remember patients is in the wine makers grasp, let it take it's time to be all it can be, and it will reward you in flavors quality .

 

[sdelli]

Well Joe.... I bit. Here is a picture of my Chilean Malbec and Merlot in the secondary fermentation with a pund of raisins in each and some Oak Tannin. The primary has a Sangiovese starting up. Was thinking of a mlf too but might not be able because of the sulphate from the raisins...

 

[jswordy]

There seems to be several of us in Joe's fan club.

I'm in! You know, one time I sent him a bottle of my blueberry but now I am scared to send him anything else after tasting his wine.

Just kidding - sort of....

 

[joeswine]

sdelli

don't confuse the difference,the raisins will do there own thing, a true MLF is all together, different ,got input so far so good, if I might make a suggestion, take the top off the bucket and replace it with a towel, this in my oppion will allow more oxygen to created a fuller fermentation, the rest looks fine, what are you going to do with the headspace after the secondary is completed ?rack it down or?



SO FAR SO GOOD=WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

[sdelli]

I will do that with the bucket.... Thanks. Just like you I run the secondary a little larger with Argon head gas... I will rack it down to correct size in a few weeks or month. Thanks again!

 

[joeswine]

Thinking outside the box

That is good planning on your part, you will see the difference in the wine . I assure you be patient with it and you will reap the rewards.





Yours .................. JPS

 

[joeswine]

process moved forward

we want to review this process before we move onto bottling for the newbee's.....................PROCESS IN REVIEW.

 

[joeswine]

Process in review

BEFORE WE MOVE ON REVIEW SOME OF THE PROCESS THAT GOT US TO THIS POINT.

 

[roger80465]

You're killin me here Joe. I am waiting (not so) patiently for your update. Don't keep us in suspense