When to pick grapes

[Handy Andy]

I know nothing.

I have 3 cultivated vineyards, + 2 other areas full of grapes, growing over rock, and up the back of my house.

The grapes are becoming ripe, at different rates, across all my vines.

Should I pick in stages, taking only the ripe bunches, or should I pick the vineyards clean when I start? ie a mechanical picker would take everything, but a hand picker, me! can be selective.

Damaged,split, bird damaged grapes I presumably? let drop to the floor

 

[wood1954]

I think I’m going to have the same problem as you. I’ll probably pick the ripest get them fermenting and wait a few days and pick the rest eventually blending them. I have enough large and small fermenters to do that. I think you would get a better wine by being selective. The only downside for me is renting a crusher 2or 3 times.

 

[Rice_Guy]

This has been an unusual year. the first northern hybrid vine was starting verasion in the last week of July and today in the last week of August the concord is still green. I have been walking/ tasting and questioning pick date for a month. The Briana yesterday is showing fruity Lambrusco aroma notes so it is close. Edelweiss and Petite Pearl are still high acid so they have to wait. I have been tempted to ask @wood1954 if he has started and check the web for when the local pick your own vineyard opens the gate, one an hour south did last weekend.

Last year the pick correlated with when the yellow jackets came out and I have been holding off on all because the yellow jackets aren’t out. Maybe the flavor notes will bring out the bugs by the end of the week.

@Handy Andy your question is what is practical. I am a small vineyard so I will pick each vine based on sugar and flavor, and then pick it clean. ,,, A commercial size vineyard will not have that luxury. A year back when the vinters club visited a winery on the state line our consensus was they were making astringent (green) wines, well of course, they said have a weekend business and had to pick when they had time. ,,, Wood and I however are Midwest, so we know about ice wine, with a pick date in December after it has freeze concentrated/ kinda like making wine from raisins.
1) do you have to? as it’s either you or the birds 2) in general later is more fruity 3) What are the neighbors in San Gorge doing

 

[Handy Andy]

We do have lots of birds here, (blackbirds and finches) which I have been told can be a problem! I note they are eyeing my grapes up, and some grapes look like they have been pecked at! I have fastened shiny things around the vines to try and scare them off.
Some of the grapes are still a little sour, but many are becoming very sweet, with one or two are falling to the ground!
My neighbours arent doing anything yet! I will go and check lower down by the coast in the Fajas, they are normally earlier.

Is it OK to start some grapes fermenting and then add more grapes from the same vineyard to the ferment/mash a week later, or would it be better to keep un-fermented grapes away from those already started fermenting, and start separate ferments blending them when they are finished fermenting?

 

[salcoco]

the best is to take sample of the different clusters, squeeze the grapes and take a specific gravity measurement. when the sg= about 1092 pick all of the grapes.

if selective picking is done ferment separately and then blend post fermentation

 

[wood1954]

Yesterday most of my grapes were at 16 Bfix. Some vines that have less foliage are still a bit more sour, about 10 of my vines were damaged the most by my application of too much phostrol. I’m thinking about another ten to fifteen days or so till harvest. It will be 94 tomorrow then in the 70s for the next couple weeks.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Is it OK to mix ,,,, yes however a purist would not ,,, do I mix in active fermentation above 1.015 when it is actively out gassing YUP ,,, (but the friends at Miller beer do lower gravity than me) ,,, and while at it do I have grape must from 2019, and 20 liters of rhubarb juice from 2020 in the freezer waiting for some new crop YUP

The up side, it is like pulling the lees from an old batch and starting a skeeter pee, or like Miller beer pulling the yeast up to three times to start the next batch, ,,,,, short time in a primary are neutral,,, in the pilot plant a fermentor is run in what is called steady state always pulling some waste rich broth off(ie alcohol rich) and adding fresh nutrient solution to maintain active metabolism of the yeast (or Aspergillus enzyme system)

The down side, you might miss out on a perfect ripeness by running smaller carboys, if you are in the two week time frame the metabolism of the yeast has slowed down and it has to relearn how to use sugar, (temperature gives you more time in the Midwest garage wineries basically stop at 45F and restart in the spring when the temp goes above 47 or 48), if you are dry, you really need to have it under an air lock to keep the oxygen out

 

[Handy Andy]

Yesterday most of my grapes were at 16 Bfix. Some vines that have less foliage are still a bit more sour, about 10 of my vines were damaged the most by my application of too much phostrol. I’m thinking about another ten to fifteen days or so till harvest. It will be 94 tomorrow then in the 70s for the next couple weeks.

I was a slow treating some downy mildew in my biggest vineyard, which spread quickly before I treated it. Many of those vines lost a lot of foliage compared to the others. They are now recovering, but the downy mildew might be the root cause of my uneven ripening this year, in that vineyard. My other vines are doing ok, I think.

This year is a learning year for me, hopefully I wont make too many more big mistakes. Next year I know what to look out for and what to do ref mildew.

Is it OK to mix ,,,, yes however a purist would not ,,, do I mix in active fermentation above 1.015 when it is actively out gassing YUP ,,, (but the friends at Miller beer do lower gravity than me) ,,, and while at it do I have grape must from 2019, and 20 liters of rhubarb juice from 2020 in the freezer waiting for some new crop YUP

The up side, it is like pulling the lees from an old batch and starting a skeeter pee, or like Miller beer pulling the yeast up to three times to start the next batch, ,,,,, short time in a primary are neutral,,, in the pilot plant a fermentor is run in what is called steady state always pulling some waste rich broth off(ie alcohol rich) and adding fresh nutrient solution to maintain active metabolism of the yeast (or Aspergillus enzyme system)

The down side, you might miss out on a perfect ripeness by running smaller carboys, if you are in the two week time frame the metabolism of the yeast has slowed down and it has to relearn how to use sugar, (temperature gives you more time in the Midwest garage wineries basically stop at 45F and restart in the spring when the temp goes above 47 or 48), if you are dry, you really need to have it under an air lock to keep the oxygen out

?? Gravity! If my grapes dont have enough sugar, ie a low Brix level, I intend to add sugar to get the brix to around 20 to 25 to produce wine with a 12 to 14% gravity.

Alcohol acts as a preservative, and low alcohol wines dont appear to have a good shelf life, in my experience.

I have some distilled alcohol, made from 70litres of very bad tasting wine, left behind by the previous owner of my vineyards. If I dont get my wine alcohol content to 12 to 14 % ish using a yeast fermentation, would it be acceptable practice "to a none purist" to add distilled wine alcohol to boost the alcohol content to 12 to 14%?? Would this effectively give the same result as adding sugar??

 

[Rice_Guy]

yes alcohol is a preservative which will prevent competitive microbes from growing, more is better, we are home vinters and can ignore European or state laws on chapitalization.

no, alcohol is a reactive chemical which will combine with oxygen producing acetaldehyde which has a lower detection threshold than ethyl alcohol.
The key here is are you managing antioxidants as SO2 and the red pigments from skins, and limiting oxygen in transfers/ headspace/ etc. Is the distillate good or will it compromise the new batch, ,,,, Sugar hides the acetaldehyde, if it produces a burn in the back of the throat and is poor quality the easiest way to use is blending with fresh juice to produce a sangria or even 11 or 13% mix.
As a primary country wine maker, I formulate for 11% alcohol. I have had dandelion be described as a “hot” wine when the issue probably was oxidation with little background flavor to hide it.