When to press

[distancerunner]

I have a lot of books. Amerine et al. Vine, Margarlit, etc. They all address the need to press, the types of equipment, free and press runs, components in the wine, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

Few, if any address when. When there is discussion it centers on the stage of fermentation or residual sugar. No one talks about flavor.

We’re pressing this morning. Four days ago the Merlot tasted great. Yesterday, not so much. Yesterday the Sangiovese tasted great. Should taste and nose be part of the decision? It makes me wonder if pressing should, at least in part, be determined by something other than a line on a hydrometer.

When do you make the decision? What are the parameters you use?

Other than allowing for real life to intrude, that is.

 

[cmason1957]

I don't press on taste, mostly on cap falling, hydrometer readings, and day of the week (it's easier to get up the next morning, if I press Friday night or Sat.) I find that the wine gets almost an off taste as it's nearing the end of fermentation. It might be the higher concentration of CO2 or maybe the start of harsher tannins coming out, not really sure why, but it no longer surprises me.

 

[sour_grapes]

I note that the must tastes "better" with some residual sugar than it does a few days later. Like a grape Nehi soda. However, I think the sugar is just covering up the harshness, which I wager is there before AND after the sugar goes away.

 

[distancerunner]

Agreed.

In this case, all varietals are <-5 Brix. There isn’t much sugar. But there’s probably some. That could account for the changes.

 

[CDrew]

For me it usually comes down to schedule. My goal is to press at 1 brix, but it's been as early as 4 brix and as late as -1. And taste has no bearing on when I press, because you have to press at some point regardless!

 

[jgmann67]

I was wrestling with this question myself. Alcohol ferment is all but done on my Cab Franc and the grape cap isn't nearly as strong as it was a couple days ago. I decided to stretch for a few more days to allow for more extraction time. Will press tomorrow morning, mostly because i have the day off and it fits my schedule so well.

 

[jburtner]

I've gotta have time to prep, sanitize, press, rack into carboys, and clean up so I go by schedule whether it's a little early or late. This year I did two batches of 200# grapes a few weeks apart which comes out to two pressings and two carboys - Not a ton.. Took a couple hours to work through the first 200# and the second batch of two 100# varietals should be similar - I can do it in an evening after work.

I'll press @1.010 or less and the PS is close while the Mouvedre is sitting higher at the moment.

Cheers!
-johann

 

[winemaker81]

For most of my winemaking career, I pressed or first racked around 1.010. It was what I was taught, and I had no reason to change. In the last 2 years I'm pressing at 1.000 or below to get more skin time, while having a solid cap. Personal time and personal schedule and stuff all have to fit in as well.

Taste was never a consideration, due to the variation in taste that is common in the first 2 months of a wine. It's a good question, even if the consensus is "nope".

 

[pete1325]

Yeah, taste has little to do with when I press. The taste can change from racking to racking, every three months or so. specially if you oak during ageing. We press a week after crushing. My first rack is at around 1.100 then let it age in glass or barrels. As said taste has little to do with my process. never had an issue. You will find your own groove after a while.

 

[mainshipfred]

I have no idea what pressing time would benefit the most. I also like to do as much pressing as I can at one time to avoid multiple cleaning of equipment. Schedule is also a factor which makes weekends the most ideal time for me. With all that being said I probably press belo1.000.

 

[jburtner]

All this - And since we drink a decanter of fresh press wine along with a prior years vintage I'm hoping it's good enough to glug!

 

[Cynewulf]

I think it’s a stylistic decision. I read about macerations from about 4-6 days to 4-6 weeks depending on the grapes and what what the winemaker is going for. Lighter, easy drinking ‘glou glou’ reds seem to be getting more popular with some of France’s younger artisan winemakers and those tend to have shorter macerations of less than a week. I have been pressing about one week after hitting .998 which ends up being a 2-3 week maceration. I think skilled winemakers with more experience than me are able to taste and determine when they’re ready to press but fruit and bitterness trade back and forth too much for me to be able to go by taste for now.

 

[distancerunner]

I think it’s a stylistic decision. I read about macerations from about 4-6 days to 4-6 weeks depending on the grapes and what what the winemaker is going for. Lighter, easy drinking ‘glou glou’ reds seem to be getting more popular with some of France’s younger artisan winemakers and those tend to have shorter macerations of less than a week. I have been pressing about one week after hitting .998 which ends up being a 2-3 week maceration. I think skilled winemakers with more experience than me are able to taste and determine when they’re ready to press but fruit and bitterness trade back and forth too much for me to be able to go by taste for now.

In the past, I've always waited until the wine was dry. SG <.996 or Brix < -5. It has always worked. I simply wonder why/how professional winemakers and advanced hobbyists make their decisions. And why no one talks about using their senses, along with a hydrometer, to make these decisions.

The grapes we fermented were picked up two weeks ago. Cold soaked for three days and pitched the yeast. The Merlot was done in seven days. The Sangiovese and Cabernet Sauvignon took a couple of extra days. Part of the decision to press today was based on lining up everyone's schedules.

We pressed almost nine hundred pounds today. We're dog tired. Used two presses to handle the different batch sizes.

We set aside some of the Sangiovese and Cab Sauv. We blended a couple of small samples, 100ml each, and tasted. Then we drank the rest. Pretty happy. If we do our jobs right for the next year or two we should be very happy with the results.

 

[CDrew]

That was a big day! Congrats. You can get 4 nice wines out of this. 3 varietals and a Super Tuscan.

 

[Cynewulf]

In the past, I've always waited until the wine was dry. SG <.996 or Brix < -5. It has always worked. I simply wonder why/how professional winemakers and advanced hobbyists make their decisions. And why no one talks about using their senses, along with a hydrometer, to make these decisions.

It is an interesting question and I’ll be interested if others have examples of folks who press based on taste. The Oregon winemaker interviewed at the end of this article says they taste every day to monitor how the wine is evolving through its maceration, though he doesn’t specifically say that it’s how they decide when to press: www.winefolly.com/deep-dive/winemakers-red-wine-secret-extended-maceration/. I spoke to a commercial winemaker about a year ago and asked about extended maceration and he said he wasn’t interested in it. His concern was to get the equipment turned over during the busy harvest season to make way for the next batch so he relied on enzymes and yeast strains to power through primary fermentation and phenolic extraction so he could press the wines, settle them, and get them into barrels and keep the production moving. So I get the impression that for some commercial winemakers, equipment availability and schedules may drive their decision of when to press rather than taste. On the opposite end of the spectrum, here is a winemaker who macerates whole clusters in separately pressed juice for 90 days until Christmas then presses: www.wineterroirs.com/2017/08/sebastien_david_loire.html. For him it seems to be time and experience rather than taste. My sister-in-law is bringing me a bottle of his Coef next week and I’m really looking forward to trying it. I’m thinking I’ll try out his technique next year with my own grapes if I have enough.

 

[SLM]

For me it usually comes down to schedule. My goal is to press at 1 brix, but it's been as early as 4 brix and as late as -1.

I have two wines at 5 brix, was hoping to press today. They've been on the skins for 17 days so that should be plenty long enough. By what I'm reading here it won't do any harm to press today, is that correct?
Actually, I thought of a possible scenario. Ferment has been slow due to cool temps, not complaining. But what if it gets stuck? It would be easier to work with in the primary, no?

 

[winemaker81]

I have two wines at 5 brix, was hoping to press today. They've been on the skins for 17 days so that should be plenty long enough. By what I'm reading here it won't do any harm to press today, is that correct?
Actually, I thought of a possible scenario. Ferment has been slow due to cool temps, not complaining. But what if it gets stuck? It would be easier to work with in the primary, no?

Is that brix as determined with a refractometer or hydrometer? The difference is huge. If you're using a refractometer, fermentation is close to done. There is a translation table that was mentioned in recent posts -- it using a refractometer, it will help to know what the equivalent SG is.

There's no bad time to press -- it depends on what you want. Aroma, flavor, color, and body are extracted early in the fermentation process. Most references state in the first 2 to 7 days, then extraction tapers off quickly.

Tannin extraction takes longer, and produces a wine that takes longer to be drinkable, for the tannins to age and soften.

If you want a lighter red, press early (< 5 days). "Normal"? roughly 6 to 20 days. My reds are typically pressed 7 days after inoculation.

At 17 days in primary, you've extracted as much aroma, flavor, color, and body as you're likely to get. If you're looking for a red that is good to drink after 1 to 2 years? IMO you're in a prime time to press.

If you have a stuck ferment, the act of pressing may stimulate the yeast.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Is that brix as determined with a refractometer or hydrometer? The difference is huge. If you're using a refractometer, fermentation is close to done. There is a translation table that was mentioned in recent posts -- it using a refractometer, it will help to know what the equivalent SG is.

There's no bad time to press -- it depends on what you want. Aroma, flavor, color, and body are extracted early in the fermentation process. Most references state in the first 2 to 7 days, then extraction tapers off quickly.

Tannin extraction takes longer, and produces a wine that takes longer to be drinkable, for the tannins to age and soften.

If you want a lighter red, press early (< 5 days). "Normal"? roughly 6 to 20 days. My reds are typically pressed 7 days after inoculation.

At 17 days in primary, you've extracted as much aroma, flavor, color, and body as you're likely to get. If you're looking for a red that is good to drink after 1 to 2 years? IMO you're in a prime time to press.

If you have a stuck ferment, the act of pressing may stimulate the yeast.

Bryan, if you press after seven days then put in a carboy, and inoculate with MLF the wine should continue to ferment to dry, correct?

 

[winemaker81]

Bryan, if you press after seven days then put in a carboy, and inoculate with MLF the wine should continue to ferment to dry, correct?

AFAIK, yeast and MLB do not interfere with each other. These are totally different processes. Conditions (SO2 concentration, pH, etc) may produce problems for one or the other, but they do not conflict.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

AFAIK, yeast and MLB do not interfere with each other. These are totally different processes. Conditions (SO2 concentration, pH, etc) may produce problems for one or the other, but they do not conflict.

Correct, I guess my point being that you don't need to ferment to dry on the skins like you would if using a kit. It will get to dry during the Mlf stage.