Why not mash or juice the fruit?????

[prather01]

I know this is an old post, but I am new to wine making and do have a few questions. I have a Tribest Slowstar Juicer, so relatively no heat, and it comes with a sorbet attachment, so all it does is crush the fruit into very fine particles for making sorbets, butter, etc.

My questions it, regarding using this for wine:
1) What would be the difference in using the juicer, that removes skins and most pulp vs using the sorbet attachement that simply crushes?

2) Which should I use, or neither?

I would be removing seeds from apples, peaches, pears, and any fruit where it is possible.

 

[Scooter68]

One approach would be just juice them like you would normally do (Removing seeds & stems as you mentioned.) THEN take the pulp and put that in a fruit bag to extract the maximum of flavors, aromas, and "essences" of the fruit. With red/dark grapes the skins are considered essential to the wine. With fruits it depends on what contribution the fruit skins may make. You may decide with a particular fruit to toss the skins after juicing but I'd research about any fruit before doing that. Perhaps with Kiwi I could see it.

 

[greyday]

I use a steam juicer, and I also freeze the berries (mostly because I get them from a bunch of different places: my own yard, u-picks, friends' houses, etc). Steam juicers are really good at spearating solid from liquid (pitting is still necessary with stone fruits, of course), and whatever little solids get left end up mixed in with the lees, so on first rack it's pretty clean. Turns out great, and I usually don't need to up the SG TOO much (about 1/2-3/4 LB inverted sugar per gallon). If you want to do purely fruit wine (i.e., no added sugar) you can either end up with a lower ABV or you can boil off some of the water to bring the SG up, either works.

 

[prather01]

Thanks for the info, I was thinking about doing that for apples, pears, and peaches this fall. I've seen a lot of apple wines made from apple cider, so if I juice my apples, pears, or peaches, it should be about the same thing I would think.

 

[Ehren]

Victorio Juicer?

I have been making blackberry wine for the last 6 years running, and all have been pretty good! I had a friend who boiled his berries, and lost most of the flavor in the process. I have never used a steam extraction or any method with heat because I'm afraid to ruin the fruit. The first 2 years I 1) smashed all the berries I could by hand... takes forever, and doesn't really work well, and 2) used a potato masher to smash them all... still not very effective.

Then I found one of these little suckers!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001I7FP54/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It still generates a pretty good sized mess, but it juices the berries perfectly and ejects the seeds intact so you can either remove them right of the bat, or bag them and let them ferment for a few days to break down any remaining flesh before pulling them out to avoid the bitterness that occurs after fermenting with seeds for too long.

I did this with over 100lbs of berries last year, and netted about 9 gallons of the most delicious wine I have made to date! Now its time to get back out there and pick some more!

Good luck!

 

[EmPyReAl_BrEwIng]

I recently made blackberry wine and made the mistake of juicing them. Ended up with tiny fibers that were almost impossible to filter out of the juice.

 

[msinc]

I haven't done anything but freeze the berries I have so far. Still gathering info on the best {if there is a best} way to "render" the berries. I will say this about my juicer, whats left has almost no flavor or aroma to it...just a big batch of fluff. The juice machine I have is very fast. That's kinda what got me to thinking about it. It makes liquid out of whatever I throw in the top chute just as fast as I can stuff the thing, so as far as being slow or tedious I don't have that problem. In fact I find it interesting that folks remark so much about how slow something is....when they are making wine!!! Strange to worry about "speed" when there is nothing whatsoever "quick" about doing any of this. I mean, rush, rip and race to make juice so you can.......wait 2 years to drink it?????
I am certain no seeds could get thru the screen on my juice machine, but I am worried that some will get ground up and impart that bitter wood taste I know I don't want in there. Maybe I just need to try a small test batch and examine the seed remnants...if they appear to be intact then it should be no problem. It's funny, I juice apples and oranges all the time and do not remove the seeds. I never noticed any off flavor in the juice just to sit and drink it. Then again, I never checked on the condition of the seeds afterwards either and I never tried it any other way. Time to do some test with the juice machine. Again, not worried too much about speed or effort, but compared to some of the options I have seen there is way less mess, it would be way faster and easier if it could be done without harm to the end product.

 

[Stressbaby]

FWIW, my blackberry ferments out fine and I don't do any of these things.

I freeze the fruit, then toss it all in a bucket with no water. Add pectic enzyme and make the adjustments. Ferment it out to nearly dry, then press. I do line the press basket with a mesh bag, it helps you recover a little more wine that way by minimizing the losses on that first racking off the gross lees.

 

[Scooter68]

I have several options now. My press is not my favorite so I have found that it works with some fruits well AFTER fermentation. Before I will either hand crush in a fruit bag, use my new auger juicer, or use one of these. Thats a 24" hand so I don't have to get my hands down in the bucket and must. (Just bought this for $10.00)

 

[msinc]

I have several options now. My press is not my favorite so I have found that it works with some fruits well AFTER fermentation. Before I will either hand crush in a fruit bag, use my new auger juicer, or use one of these. Thats a 24" hand so I don't have to get my hands down in the bucket and must. (Just bought this for $10.00)

Does your auger juicer crush or otherwise alter the seeds themselves when you use it for blackberries??? Thanks in advance for any and all info. Out of all your options which one is your favorite???

 

[Scooter68]

Does your auger juicer crush or otherwise alter the seeds themselves when you use it for blackberries??? Thanks in advance for any and all info. Out of all your options which one is your favorite???

My Juicer will if the seeds or 'Hearts' of the berries are big enough. BUT I don't see the need to put blackberries, blueberries or Raspberries (Black or Red) through a juicer - They crush so easily. What I will use and have used in the past is the potato masher. Does just fine with berries in a fruit bag.

As to my favorite... It depends on the fruit. Apples - definitely the Juicer.
Peachers & Berries of any sort - The Potato masher.
The Press is something I wasted my money as far as I'm concerned. It worked yesterday to press peaches - AFTER fermentation was done to get the last of the liquid out of them. BUT it's messy to work with and clean up and it can only press soft things and the potato masher doesn't take that long to use or clean. AND I can use the potato masher during fermentation to see how the fruit is breaking down and encourage it along. For $10.00 on Amazon that's the best deal.

 

[msinc]

Thank you sir, I will go ahead and get me one of those hand masher rigs.....I was afraid the juicer would cut up the seeds and blackberries also have a thing in the middle that probably don't taste too good if it got ground up and some parts got thru the juicer either. Raspberries would probably work though...that middle thing stays on the stem when you pick them. Too bad, cause the juicer I have is very fast and cleans up easy...it also gets all of the juice that can possibly be had. The sluff left behind hardly even has any smell.

 

[Scooter68]

Too bad, cause the juicer I have is very fast and cleans up easy...it also gets all of the juice that can possibly be had. The sluff left behind hardly even has any smell.

Hmmm sounds like you are talking about a centrifugal juicer. As I understand those incorporate a lot of air into the fruit and cause rapid oxidation and heat, both of which are not good for producing the best wine. If you go to the thread on the Country Fruit Wine Making part of this forum and look up the Apple Q thread you can see some posts on that issue. At the bottom of the 3rd page: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57372&page=3

 

[msinc]

Thanks again, I'll check it out. Zero heat added with the one I have though...it is centrifugal. All the juice is always the same temp as the fruit that goes in. I guess you could always refrigerate the berries to get them almost to freezing point if the heat is the culprit.

 

[AuntBee]

Scooter68, I have to ask...what's the problem with "steaming the juice out"???? Sounds like you don't want to do it this way, is there a reason???? Thanks.

Did you get an answer to your steam question. I have about 95 pounds I am going to begin to steam juice. It us eady, I catch any seeds that try to escape wirh a tea strainer over the top of the big pot. The seeds do not get crushed....so I was wondering the same thing. Steam juicing is very easy. Thoughts?

 

[AuntBee]

I have been making blackberry wine for the last 6 years running, and all have been pretty good! I had a friend who boiled his berries, and lost most of the flavor in the process. I have never used a steam extraction or any method with heat because I'm afraid to ruin the fruit. The first 2 years I 1) smashed all the berries I could by hand... takes forever, and doesn't really work well, and 2) used a potato masher to smash them all... still not very effective.

Then I found one of these little suckers!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001I7FP54/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It still generates a pretty good sized mess, but it juices the berries perfectly and ejects the seeds intact so you can either remove them right of the bat, or bag them and let them ferment for a few days to break down any remaining flesh before pulling them out to avoid the bitterness that occurs after fermenting with seeds for too long.

I did this with over 100lbs of berries last year, and netted about 9 gallons of the most delicious wine I have made to date! Now its time to get back out there and pick some more!

Good luck!

I have one of those Victorio Food strainers, and love it for many things like getting the rest of the sauce from the pulp. (Tomatoes, blackberries, apples, pears...) I have been using a Victorio Steam juicer to make blackberry juice and my juice is dark, strong and often fairly sweet. With added 100% cane sugar it is as good or better than strong Welch's grape juice. I am not sure how everyone is concerned about flavor loss, as I get seedless, strong flavorfull juice using this method. ..but then I don't know how to make wine. I might be over my head in this group. I will continue to read.

 

[msinc]

Did you get an answer to your steam question. I have about 95 pounds I am going to begin to steam juice. It us eady, I catch any seeds that try to escape wirh a tea strainer over the top of the big pot. The seeds do not get crushed....so I was wondering the same thing. Steam juicing is very easy. Thoughts?

Well, the answer I got was that the heat from the steam process may be detrimental to the making of wine. Seems the heat may alter or at least somehow reduce the flavor or maybe impart unwanted flavors into the wine.
Most folks that make jelly do it with steam or heat and it doesn't alter or otherwise reduce the flavor, but.....you don't go thru the fermenting process to make jelly or preserves either. It would be interesting to try two batches identical with the exception of the way the juice was rendered to see if there is a palatable difference.

 

[WineYooper]

Have been making blackberry for years and have always frozen berries first. My batches are usually 6 gal so around 30# of berries, all wild berries. I thaw in mesh bag in primary so as not to lose any juice, squeeze well when thawed and after ferment has started daily along with stirring must. When I squeeze daily, as the berries break down, I tie another knot in the mesh bag below the first knot. It can be a little tricky but it helps keep the fruit consolidated and makes the bag smaller in the primary. Try it and you will discover why I use this method. Blackberry is my favorite and guests love it as well.

 

[Scooter68]

WineYooper - I like that method. Only thing I hate about the fruit bags is cleaning them afterwards - The time and effort to rinse out all those little pieces of fruit. But then if it was easy everyone would be doing it at home.
Blackberry, Blueberry, and Black Raspberry are the easiest to get all the juice out and to crush no need to steam, use a press or juicer. Nothing wrong with doing that but to me it's not needed.