Great article on wine faults by Iowa state university
Wine faults how to identify and fix
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Great article. I'm new to the forum and not sure where to post my question.
The article leads me to believe that I have 2 carboys of wine that are showing signs of protein deposit. Both were slow to complete MLF. After 2-1/2 months of waiting and finally realizing they were not making any progress, I added more ML culture. A month later, things didn't improve, so I added a dose of Lysozyme to both. A month later I also added a dose of Tannin Riche Extra for a bit more body and oak flavor.
Three weeks later, I added some k-meta and bottled one carboy which is when I noticed that a persistent foam had formed in the bottles. I thought it would go away but now I noticed that at the bottom of each bottle there is a 1/4 inch layer of a white substance. The wine in the bottle taste fine but the foam is unsightly and I'm worried that it might make me sick.
The wine in the second carboy was put through a 5 micron filter allowed to rest some more to see what would happen to the foam. I noticed today some white particles throughout the wine.
I do not know how to proceed and hope someone on the forum would offer some help. Thanks in advance.
The article leads me to believe that I have 2 carboys of wine that are showing signs of protein deposit. Both were slow to complete MLF. After 2-1/2 months of waiting and finally realizing they were not making any progress, I added more ML culture. A month later, things didn't improve, so I added a dose of Lysozyme to both. A month later I also added a dose of Tannin Riche Extra for a bit more body and oak flavor.
Three weeks later, I added some k-meta and bottled one carboy which is when I noticed that a persistent foam had formed in the bottles. I thought it would go away but now I noticed that at the bottom of each bottle there is a 1/4 inch layer of a white substance. The wine in the bottle taste fine but the foam is unsightly and I'm worried that it might make me sick.
The wine in the second carboy was put through a 5 micron filter allowed to rest some more to see what would happen to the foam. I noticed today some white particles throughout the wine.
I do not know how to proceed and hope someone on the forum would offer some help. Thanks in advance.
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Ohio Bob
Senior Member
Wow, this is an incredibly complex situation. I’ve used lysozyme once and it produced a thick white layer of sediment in my Riesling. Lysozyme inhibits MLF so you added lots of MLB and then lysozyme. Maybe that’s the reason for the thick sediment. Not sure why you’re seeing foam on the surface. Large bubbles too, not smaller ones I’d expect for MLF.
The foam is super persistent. Even when you don't see it in the bottle, it comes out of solution when you pour the wine in a glass and stays in the glass even after you pour the wine in the sink. The sediment appeared after approx 7 days after bottling the wine. I still have on more carboy that hasn't been bottled. You can see the white sediment all along the sides of the carboy. I'm trying to salvage it. No more lysozyme for me until I truly understand how to use it.
@Ohio Bob, How did your Riesling turn out? I'm assuming you racked it off the white sediment. Anything else? BTW, I heated up, just a few degrees, a glass of the bottled wine and the bubbles cleared up.
I am speculating that the foam is due to significant CO2 dissolved in the wine. As to why you have the persistant bubbles, it likely is protein dissolved in the wine. Not much to do at this point.
With the remaining wine, make sure you have racked sufficiently to really clean it up. Maybe do a super clean rack before bottling which will waste some wine, but it will be as clean as you can get it. I think just too much stuff was added to make a totally clear call at this point. If you wanted to try and save the first wine that's bottled, I'd pour it all back in a carboy and let it settle again and then rack off the sludge.
To test for CO2, take a bottle of the wine, uncork it and shake it with your thumb over the opening. If there is a lot of CO2, it will be obvious.
Is this wine from grapes or something else?
With the remaining wine, make sure you have racked sufficiently to really clean it up. Maybe do a super clean rack before bottling which will waste some wine, but it will be as clean as you can get it. I think just too much stuff was added to make a totally clear call at this point. If you wanted to try and save the first wine that's bottled, I'd pour it all back in a carboy and let it settle again and then rack off the sludge.
To test for CO2, take a bottle of the wine, uncork it and shake it with your thumb over the opening. If there is a lot of CO2, it will be obvious.
Is this wine from grapes or something else?
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@CDrew, I did shake the bottle but the bubbles are very persistent, larger and stick together. On a whim today, I poured some in a glass and heated it up a few degrees. The bubbles at the surface when away. I thought then it could be CO2 , so I left the glass sit on the table for more than 4 hours. The wine appeared clear but more bubbles appeared when I shook the bottle or pour more wine in another glass. If it is CO2, they cling together and don't let go easily.
I raised the temperature of the wine in the carboy and noticed the white sediment was a lot less obvious then Some bubbles can still be seen at the surface but they are not popping. Like you, I'm suspecting protein. How about some bentonite to get rid of the sediment, let it rest a few days then stir it vigorously and see then what happens to the bubbles.
The wines are from juices from a local supplier.
I raised the temperature of the wine in the carboy and noticed the white sediment was a lot less obvious then Some bubbles can still be seen at the surface but they are not popping. Like you, I'm suspecting protein. How about some bentonite to get rid of the sediment, let it rest a few days then stir it vigorously and see then what happens to the bubbles.
The wines are from juices from a local supplier.
How does your wine smell? My juice buckets are undergoing MLF now, they started out with small bubbles like you would expect, then the bubbles got up to a half inch and were fairly persistent like yours and now they are getting smaller but the air lock is bubbing more than MLF is usually doing. I hope I don’t have some weird bug in the wine. The AF went completely dry so I don’t know what is still fermenting.
degassing?
My wine smell and taste fine. It's just these bubbles that won't go away. Bubbles do come out when I degas but, unlike in other wines I've made in the past, the bubbles take a long long time to dissipate and form a thick layer of foam on top of the wine. Eventually, 5-6 days later, the foam becomes less thick but there is always a thin layer of bubbles that refuse to go away. I keep the carboy under a vaccum (AIO). Maybe that's the reason why the CO2 stays for so long. I just do not recall the same effect in prior years. I've been using the AIO for 3 years. In any case, I also suspect that I also have a protein issue. The wine has been ageing for 6 months in carboy. Even if I didn't properly degassed, I would think that most of the gas would have come out of solution by now.
My wine tastes good as well and the MLF is about over. Bubbles are getting smaller, I guess nothing to worry about.
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