Wine has pH 3.3 what does it tell me?

[Ericphotoart]

It's actually quadberry Dragon Blood but I didn't post it in Dragon Blood thread because I need a general idea. I purchased Apera pH meter recently and I want to make a best of it. The dragon blood has fermented to dry. I followed the process adding Superkleer and after about 10 days I racked and backsweetened it. Before adding sugar I tested pH and it was pH 3.3. The taste absolutely fabulous. This is the 3rd or 5th dragon blood I made with different ingredients, but this one has body, flavor (even before backsweetening). Do you target your wines to this pH? Does the final pH matter?

 

[Rice_Guy]

* the lower the pH the better the stability,,, ie 3.0 is better for resisting infection and producing free SO2
* yeast are stressed with lower pH and if it gets to 2.8 they start to die/ not reproduce
* sugar can make low pH taste balanced but total acidity is really the measure for where the balance should be, ,,, water has no acid is no TA ,,,, a TA of 0.4% may taste balanced dry where as a TA of 1.2% may require back sweetening to 1.015

my goal today is 3.5 to 3.0 with a more narrow target of 3.2 to 3.3,

 

[Ericphotoart]

Very informative. Thank you. TA is something new to me and I will need to do a lot of research on the subject. I am trying to learn more about the chemistry behind the wine fermentation so this will definitely be my next step. How to measure and adjust TA? I'm not sure if this is not too complex question, but I will ask.

 

[Rice_Guy]

A starting point to think about TA and acids;

A guideline for where to balance TA on wine;
after club contest this year I collected eight first place wines which are the red triangles
View attachment 81200
The sample set "cloud" is primarily commercial wines, with some collected in the vinters club and here on WineMakingTalk
NOTE: TA is one of several quality traits which a first place wine has as absence of flavor defect, appropriate aroma for the variety and clarity , , , etc.
NOTE 2: this is an easy test, if ya'll are interested in your wine ,,, PM me

An introduction to flavor balance: Acid/Sour
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084...e-of-sour?utm_medium=email&utm_source=rasa_io
An added note: When we taste food/ beverage flavors they come as waves, the first wave is typically sweet followed by acid or salty followed by bitter or astringent (ie different tannins in wine). Natural sugars wash out of the mouth fairly fast. Artificial sweetners vary in speed for example stevia is fast and frequently blended with monk fruit which is slower.
My favorite demonstration of waves of flavor is pepper; .. white pepper is fast to detect and fast to wash out of the mouth, ,, black pepper is slower to be detected and lasts longer in the mouth, ,, still slower is red pepper which may take a second mouth full to be detect and by that time we say - OH _ S#ugar ! - is that ever strong

The psychology of Tasting (skip the 5 minute intro);

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aH...EwjHuOnTtbz2AhXGITQIHawbBYYQieUEegQIAhAF&ep=6
Note: It is easier to formulate a winning grocery product with a fanciful name. ,,, I can skew how high a contest cyser scores if I build the judge's expectations as "with cinnamon" or "aged in a maple syrup barrel", otherwise the complexity might be called a defect.

 

[Rice_Guy]

. How to measure and adjust TA? I'm not sure if this is not too complex question, but I will ask.

* the easiest way to reduce TA is add water to dilute the acidity
* now the complicated; adding an alkali as potassium carbonate or calcium carbonate or sodium hydroxide.
* adding a low acidity juice like water melon or peach
* letting a crop like apple ripen a month (traditionally called sweating)
* if the fruit has malic acid running MLF
* if the fruit has tartaric acid chilling to precipitate potassium tartrates

# the easiest way to increase TA is add teaspoons of acid from a bottle
# adding a high acidity juice like lemon or rhubarb or green apple

There are kits for titrating acids at most wine supply stores. With a pH meter run to pH 8.2 otherwise the traditional way was watch for a color change from phenolthalein indicator which turns pink at pH 8.2

 

[winemaker81]

Very informative. Thank you. TA is something new to me and I will need to do a lot of research on the subject. I am trying to learn more about the chemistry behind the wine fermentation so this will definitely be my next step. How to measure and adjust TA? I'm not sure if this is not too complex question, but I will ask.

Pre-fermentation, I'll add acid if the pH is high (above 3.8). If the pH was below 3.0, I'd probably water it back a bit. It doesn't take much to raise the pH.

Post-fermentation, be cautious of relying only on the numbers. Taste is key. However, if your pH is low, the wine is likely to taste sharp, while if it's high, the wine is likely to be flabby. Conversely, if the TA is high the wine is often sharp while if it's low, the wine is flabby. But this is not guaranteed, which is why I caution trusting the numbers and not your senses.

I adjust by taste, making small changes and giving the wine time to integrate. Making large changes to acid/pH level, or trusting calculated amounts, can lead to an acid yo-yo, repeatedly "fixing" the wine.

Keep in mind the enemy of Good is not Bad; the enemy is Better. When adjusting a wine, if it tastes good, stop. You're far more likely to screw up the wine by trying to "perfect it".

In your case, a pH of 3.3 sounds great. It tastes fabulous, so you can't improve on perfection!

 

[Ericphotoart]

Thank you guys. I’m learning so much here. My wines improved a lot. My first and second wines are drinkable but nothing great. When I checked my notes I made several mistakes and my last couple are pretty good. Yesterday I racked chocolate cherry which will probably be my best wine so far. All thanks to all of you