Wine into vinegar (by accident)

[Elmer]

I know if left alone long enough, wine will start to turn to vinegar.
But how long does it take?
And does the same go or cider ?
I just made a batch of 6.5% ABV cider, which sat in primary longer than I wanted.
I failed to put k meta in before fermentation.
2 days after I gave a dose of k meta I took a sip and the cider had a tingle to the tongue followed by an apple taste.
I can not tell If the tingle is vinegar or just green wine?

How do you know if your wine/cider is turning?
Does it smell?

( for the record I would be baffled if it turned to cider, since I have a batch of vinegar with a mother [in a separate room] which refused to turn to cider)

More importantly, if my batch of cider did start to turn I have a lot of bottles, jugs, stoppers & hoses that are contaminated.

How do I deal with that?

 

[JohnT]

Wine to turns to only with the help of a very specific type of bacteria. Most likely, your wine simply has a high PH and is a little "Green".

If you want vinegar, you should add a "mother of vinegar" to your wine. This is a bacteria starter culture.

I would also suggest that you keep this in a completely separate room and clean/sanitize/sterilize any equipment that your vinegar come into contact with.

 

[sour_grapes]

I took a sip and the cider had a tingle to the tongue followed by an apple taste.
I can not tell If the tingle is vinegar or just green wine?

The tingle could be from CO2 (indeed, a sign of a "green" wine). You could eliminate the CO2 from a test sample by microwaving it, and then cooling it back down. Probably not the best thing for the overall taste of your cider, but it would get rid of the CO2. If your sample tingles before this treatment, but not afterwards, I would conclude you still have CO2.

 

[Elmer]

Wine to turns to only with the help of a very specific type of bacteria. Most likely, your wine simply has a high PH and is a little "Green".

If you want vinegar, you should add a "mother of vinegar" to your wine. This is a bacteria starter culture.

I would also suggest that you keep this in a completely separate room and clean/sanitize/sterilize any equipment that your vinegar come into contact with.

I have some red wine vinegar brewing in a different room, using up some of what is left of my lower end bottles.
However after 6 month the vinegar is just not going anywhere because I dont think I have the right temp.

Anyhow, I was worried that my cider was contaminated, thereby contaminating my wine room, which means I would have to torch my wine room and equipment to clean the area!

Thanks for putting my worry to rest.

 

[Arne]

I believe DJrockinSteve used to make some vinegar. Think he kept it in his attic in the summer to get it to turn. Maybe he will show up and let you know. Arne.

 

[Turock]

Acetobacteria is everywhere. So it's easy to make vinegar!!! As you said, Elmer, you didn't use meta beforehand. Not using meta--or not enough-- and too much headspace in carboys are 2 things that will get you in trouble and make vinegar production easy to happen.

 

[Elmer]

Acetobacteria is everywhere. So it's easy to make vinegar!!! As you said, Elmer, you didn't use meta beforehand. Not using meta--or not enough-- and too much headspace in carboys are 2 things that will get you in trouble and make vinegar production easy to happen.

So if we are to assume that my cider did turn to vinegar, and is now sitting in 2 of my jugs, with air locks & stoppers, and I used my racking canes and hoses, all of this is contaminated.

How would I clean all this, soap? Many doses of sterilizing solutions?

 

[Turock]

Clean them very well with a good solution of meta. Be sure to run alot of it thru the hoses.

 

[Elmer]

I keep going back and forth about the state of my cider. At first I think there is no way it turned to vinegar in such short time. Then I think to myself, that would be my luck.

However, I was trolling the interwebs and came across this information:
http://www.apple-cider-vinegar-benefits.com/vinegar-making.html

the directions mention that the process of turning alcohol to vinegar takes about 2 months. Considering I never had a "gelatinous white film floating on top of the liquid"
I would say I never had the time nor white film.

I guess it would also shoot down my theory of the creation of vinegar being the cause of my stalled fermentation. That is just tin foil hat type theories!

 

[Turock]

Elmer, stalled ferment is nearly always due to lack of a good nutrient protocol. Not only do you need sufficient nutrient but it also has to be feed to the yeast at the times they need it.

Vinegar on the other hand is an oxidative process--it needs oxygen to produce it. So this is why limiting headspace during the aging process is so important---and the use of proper amounts of meta.

All yeast produce small amounts of vinegar. But acetobacter can't produce vinegar in a ferment because of the inhibiting effects of CO2.