wine juice versus wine grapes

[corinth]

Is it better to make wine from pure wine juice that has just been pressed or buying the wine grapes yourself.

Am I assuming correctly that it might be better to buy the grapes and press them yourself since you have all the grape skins?

Would this also depend on whether it pertains to white wine such as a chardonnay versus a merlot or cabernet sauvignon(for an example)

Thank you
corinth

PS: I will post the name of the winery which is located in San Pedro ,( if that is an OK thing to post)California for those who live in Southern California

 

[Arne]

If you get the grapes, you have a little more control how they are handled. If you get the juice, it is a lot less work. It also depends on what equiptment you have. What few grapes I have done, were done totally by hand. Picked the grapes off the stems, crushed em witha potatoe masher and got em ready to ferment. I did press them in an old apple press tho, helped get the juice out. It is kinda up to you how much work you want to go to. And if you are going to want to ferment on the skins, you probably have to start with the grapes not the juice. I know, not much help, but the choices wind up being yours. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[Boatboy24]

Since most white wines are not fermented on the skins, you're not losing much by simply getting a juice bucket. But as Arne said, you are not in total control of how the grapes are handled. Reds are usually fermented on the skins, so getting a juice bucket may lead to the loss of tannins and body vs using whole grapes. However, my understanding of the juice bucket process is that reds are crushed, then soak on the skins for a few days before pressing. One method several of us have used is to buy a red juice bucket, but add a lug of grapes. This gives you some "on skin" fermentation, and bumps up your total volume to allow for some losses/sampling during racking.

The other obvious consideration with whole grapes is equipment.

 

[Turock]

Altho you can make very good wines with juice buckets, it's always been our experience that working with the grape makes a richer wine. We do a number of juice buckets--just because it's not easy to always get the grapes you want. And when you consider a crusher and a press, some people don't have the room for such things. Nor do they want the work. So it's totally up to you what you want to work with. We've made some fabulous wines from juice buckets--and even Alexander's concentrate!!!

 

[corinth]

Boatboy,"reds are crushed, then soak on the skins for a few days before pressing."

letting the reds soak for a few days leads me to a follow-up quesrtion. Would we allow these to soak with the k-meta while they soak and what temperature do you think must would be kept at?
follow-up ??? buy the juice bucket and then buy just enough grapes to add to the fermentation to add more flavor?

As for equipement: I hear you . I have a few vines in my yard and I do it all by hand right now. It is time consuming but if the other vines start to take off and it appears that they will, I will have to buy something ...ching.ching
but will be in the next year.
Whew what a great adventure!
Corinth

 

[Boatboy24]

letting the reds soak for a few days leads me to a follow-up quesrtion. Would we allow these to soak with the k-meta while they soak and what temperature do you think must would be kept at?
follow-up ??? buy the juice bucket and then buy just enough grapes to add to the fermentation to add more flavor?

Corinth

Typically, you will crush, dose with KMeta to inhibit any native bugs, then pitch 24 hours later. I'm doing this in my basement, which is about 68F all year. In the case of a juice bucket, this has already been done for you. But if you are adding more grapes to the mix, it couldn't hurt to do it again.

As far as how many grapes, that's up to the winemaker, I guess. I think most people use 1 lug per bucket (18-36lbs, depending on where the grapes are from).

 

[joeswine]

depends

ALL of you are in the correct ballpark, it all depends on the amount of work you are willing to do the equipment you have, the environment your in and time constraints.

AS far as what is better it depends on your skills as a winemaker and what you have in your tool box to work with.
AS, far as the grapes are concerned they are picked by others sometimes not with the correct profile but for shipping time frames they need to be done now, that is part of the reason a lot of juice buckets don't have much aroma if any, grapes can also not have the correct BRIXS level yet they are close enough for shipping and WILL achieve a decent bricks at the end of there travels. USUALLY AROUND 23BRIXS.

I have often wondered why someone doesn't sell some of these wine grapes for a table grape they are absolutely delicious.
a lot of work and sometimes bad results with grapes from master winemaker as well as home wine maker, to make a good quality wine from fresh grapes takes time, energy and finances, the rest is skill, if you have most f these traits your online if not stick to kits, the results will be decent in the end and just as rewarding ,but if your a purest then there is no other way and that my friends takes talent. which is time tested.

 

[corinth]

great advice.
lets see: energy: battery on low but recharging.
equipment: slowly getting closer to what i have spent on woodworking over the years but not even close.
Finances: Well, One of my sons is getting married early next year so that will effect my portfolio(mine pretty much has pictures in it) and I am still salivating over the purchase of my new saw-stop(3 GRAND).
Skill: I do not know about skill but I figure If I keep reading, keep experimenting, keep asking reasonable informed questions on this forum from you folks in which the advice rolls off you tongue like pure artistry,
and last, If I can maintain my OCD profile, I may make it!
thanks!
Corinth
PS downside is that I am capable of asking a lot of but hold back or at times, I will send a quick Pm so I share the wealth.

Baking bread: three to twelve hours and you are done. Woodworking, could take easily over a year. Learning to play classical piece of music---could take years.

I am game!
Dome Arigato, sensei
Corinth

 

[JohnT]

Corinth,

IMHO, If your goal is to grow your own grapes and process them, then why wait. I would go ahead, get the equipment, and start using grapes. This way, you can some valuable experience while your vines mature.

johnT.

 

[corinth]

I hear you John T.
I do not have a lot of room as I planted about 12 vines and am getting grapes from three of them. Next year, I hope to to have enough for a Zinfandel and a muscat and if that happens, I will buy more equipment.

Having wine grapes growing in my Japanese garden is a little tricky as they need to fit in(kinda ) but growing them on the perimeter along one of my walls seems to work OK

I definitely see me increasing the hobby but it all has to fit in with the money and space I have with my other hobbies.

But I hear ya!
Corinth

 

[blazerpb]

I always thought the grapes were one of the fruit varieties that do not ripen any further after picking. Brix should not change during shipping.

 

[corinth]

OK John T,
check out the new posts concerning wine juice

Corinth

 

[grapeman]

I always thought the grapes were one of the fruit varieties that do not ripen any further after picking. Brix should not change during shipping.

This is correct. Once picked, grapes do not increase brix levels, nor do they get sweeter after a frost like I have heard so many times. During shipment the juice will only get lower in brix if anything. Sometimes it will begin to ferment and something starting at a 23 brix level may arrive lower, say 20 brix. Quality buckets are normally more stable as they have been handled properly.

 

[JohnT]

OK John T,
check out the new posts concerning wine juice

Corinth

Corinth,

I am not sure which posts you are talking about....

 

[corinth]

John T.
You are correct. I should have said the one on Chardonnay and Merlot. I told myself if John T says it is a good idea, I value his opinion and will go for it.
Corinth