Wine kit fermenting confusion

[Tommcd]

Hi
I have just started my wine first wine kit!. I'm a little confused on the instructions it states if you want your wine in 7days if your hydrometer reads below 995 then add the stabiliser sachet. So does that mean I should only put it in if it reads bellow 995 should I start bottling it if it's not at 995 and bubbles stopped in the air lock? Maybe a stupid question. Sorry about me

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Tommcd. Welcome to this forum.
Not a stupid question - there are no stupid questions, though there can be poor answers.
As you probably know, alcohol is less dense than water and if the specific gravity of water is given a nominal number of 1.000 then water + alcohol should be lower than 1.000 . Often, though, there are some unfermentable sugars and other compounds in the wine and readings might be at 1.000 or even a little higher. If the manufacturer of the kit suggests that you wait until the gravity drops to about .995 (because they know that their kits usually finish bone dry), all other things being equal: and that may mean that you have removed all the CO2 gas that is dissolved in your wine, and that may mean that the temperature at which you are taking a gravity reading is the temperature at which your hydrometer was calibrated: if it is cooler in your wine room than the calibrated temperature the gravity reading may be higher (the wine will be more dense at lower temperatures).
The fact that your airlock is not bubbling does not mean that your yeast has finished fermenting. You want to take two or three readings over a week or more to determine whether the gravity of the wine is absolutely stable or if it is falling slowly. Your airlock could be bubbling every ten or fifteen minutes but perhaps you are missing that activity. In fact most (all?) seasoned wine makers will tell you that watching an airlock may be entertaining but it really is not a good indicator of anything. Changes in ambient air pressure can make you think that the yeast are working when they have been dormant for months and a small leak between the airlock and bung or bung and lip can suggest that nothing is happening although the yeast is pumping out CO2 as if there is no tomorrow...
Should you bottle? I think that that depends on the kit and the instructions. The longer you wait the better the finished wine will be but if the manufacturer suggests that you can bottle their product after X days or weeks or months AND you have determined that your wine is at the stage when they say you CAN bottle AND you have done everything you need to do at that stage then I would follow the instructions faithfully. This I say because the instructions kit manufacturers provide are designed (typically) for people who have never made a wine before and (usually) the instructions are fail-safe. They want you to buy another kit...
Now, I don't make kits but I am sure that if you mention the name of the kit there will be folk on this forum who will be familiar with it and can offer you their experience with the kit you have.

 

[sour_grapes]

Let me first state that you really cannot make decent wine on a rushed timetable. 7 days to bottling is just short of ludicrous. Yes, it is wine, but it is just a newborn baby.

As Bernard says, the only reliable sign that the wine is finished fermenting is if the SG is below 1.000 (say, 0.992 to 0.996) AND it is not changing. It will likely be full of CO2 at this point, so you probably won't like the result if you bottle it. Instead, take your time, add the sachet, but wait for the wine to degas and age a little before bottling. I usually wait for more than a year with wine in a topped-up carboy, but I acknowledge I did not do that early on in my winemaking!

 

[Tommcd]

Thanks for your reply you have given me alot of useful information I will go woth the kit information and hope it will all go well. This is my first time brewing so wet with a kit, I have two different kits to try then I will do cider aswell as trying from scratch myself. The kit I am Using is a Solomon grundy savingnon blanc style thought I would try my partners kit before I done my red wine just incase.

 

[Tommcd]

Let me first state that you really cannot make decent wine on a rushed timetable. 7 days to bottling is just short of ludicrous. Yes, it is wine, but it is just a newborn baby.

As Bernard says, the only reliable sign that the wine is finished fermenting is if the SG is below 1.000 (say, 0.992 to 0.996) AND it is not changing. It will likely be full of CO2 at this point, so you probably won't like the result if you bottle it. Instead, take your time, add the sachet, but wait for the wine to degas and age a little before bottling. I usually wait for more than a year with wine in a topped-up carboy, but I acknowledge I did not do that early on in my winemaking!

Thanks for your help I just wanted to know if I needed the sachet or if they put it in as a precaution I'm in no rush to drink it just want to get it right get on woth the next one and then once I know the basics try different things and my own ones.
I will put the sachet in and follow the instructions thank you

 

[Ajmassa]

depends on what the packet is. Majority of kits I’m aware of usually include 2 different Chems at this stage. Sulphite and sorbate.
potassium metabisulphite— used in almost all wines to protect from oxygen and bacteria. The other is potassium sorbate. That one is included as a failsafe just as your instincts were telling you. The sorbate prevents any unfermented residual sugar from fermenting later (and causing unwanted “bottle bombs”). If the wine is fermented fully dry and not adding sugar or sweetening later then ya can skip it. The Sauvignon blanc prefer is fully dry.
If just one packet was included I’ve also heard of both chems being mixed in one. In any case- as long as you add as instructed ya can’t go wrong. Good luck

 

[Tommcd]

depends on what the packet is. Majority of kits I’m aware of usually include 2 different Chems at this stage. Sulphite and sorbate.
potassium metabisulphite— used in almost all wines to protect from oxygen and bacteria. The other is potassium sorbate. That one is included as a failsafe just as your instincts were telling you. The sorbate prevents any unfermented residual sugar from fermenting later (and causing unwanted “bottle bombs”). If the wine is fermented fully dry and not adding sugar or sweetening later then ya can skip it. The Sauvignon blanc prefer is fully dry.
If just one packet was included I’ve also heard of both chems being mixed in one. In any case- as long as you add as instructed ya can’t go wrong. Good luck

Hi
Yer thats right it says add stabiliser on the packet it says stabiliser (preservative E223, E202) contains sulphites then add sweetener sachet, I don't think I have that unless one of the following packets is a sweetener...
One degassed add wine compound then add the kieselsol and shake and leave for 24 hours after add chitosan and leave for a further day or two.

 

[sour_grapes]

Hi
Yer thats right it says add stabiliser on the packet it says stabiliser (preservative E223, E202) contains sulphites then add sweetener sachet, I don't think I have that unless one of the following packets is a sweetener...
One degassed add wine compound then add the kieselsol and shake and leave for 24 hours after add chitosan and leave for a further day or two.

Hard to tell from here, but "wine compound" sounds like it could be a sweetener.

 

[winemaker81]

I agree with Sour Grapes -- technically it's possible to bottle at 7 days, but the bottles will have chunks in them. It takes longer than a week for the wine to ferment and clear.

Following is a rough guide for wine kit making, based upon the brands I've made. This is not an all-inclusive list, but is designed to help you make sense of the process. Compare this list to your kit instructions and make notes.

If anything is unclear, post new questions.


1. Start the kit according to instructions. Fermentation will generally start within 8 to 48 hours. Yeast is a living thing and will react to its conditions, so all time tables are approximate.

2. Fermentation will normally take between 4 and 10 days. Stir the must daily with a sanitized stirring implement. If there are solids on top, push them down during the stirring.

Sanitizing solution: Stir 3 Tbsp potassium metabisulfite into 1 gallon/4 liters water and keep in a capped jug. This is reusable as long as it stinks and it clear. Never sniff deeply -- you'll cough & choke. Use in a ventilated area; I run a small fan to blow the fumes away.

There is no need to rinse equipment afterward -- just shake off the excess. You're going to put sulfite in the wine, anyway.

3. Rack the wine when the SG is between 1.000 and 1.010. Put it in a sanitized carboy and any extra wine into smaller bottle(s). Since the fermentation is still active, leave a few extra inches of air space to avoid bubbling over the container. CO2 is being released from the wine (hence the bubbling) so air is not a problem at this time.

Note: I have done a first racking when the wine was at 1.020, but prefer it below 1.010. Some folks let the wine ferment completely dry before racking -- I don't like leaving the wine in an open container once fermentation is complete. The wine has a CO2 cushion on top and a day or two should be fine, so this is a personal prejudice on my part.

4. Let the wine set another 5 to 7 days. At this point fermentation should be complete and a fair amount of sediment may have dropped. Check the SG -- if the SG is at or below the level indicated in the instructions, fermentation should be done. Generally reds will be 0.996 or lower, and whites will be 0.998 or lower.

If you're not sure fermentation is complete -- re-read Bernard's advice above, where he goes into detail on determining fermentation is complete.

5. If fermentation is complete, rack the wine, leaving the sediment behind. After the racking, most kits say to stir vigorously. This drives off most of the CO2 -- with CO2 in the wine, it will not clear properly.

Note: I stirred my grape wines last fall -- they cleared in record time.

6. At this point, most kits call for adding sulfite & sorbate, and a fining/clearing agent (typically chitosan & kieselsol). The instructions may call for adding a F-pack/sweetening pack. Use the sequence of actions indicated in the instructions -- these vary a bit from vendor to vendor, and sometimes by kit level.

Rack the wine back into the carboy. This time fill the carboy within a couple inches from the bottom of the stopper. Place any excess in a bottle just big enough to contain it. [It's common to have several smaller bottles.] All containers should have an airlock.

Note: If you do not have enough wine to top up a container, add enough of a similar wine to eliminate the air space. commercial wine is perfectly acceptable.

7. The fining agents work quickly so you'll see a lot of sediment drop within a few days. After a few days, give the carboy a sharp sideways twist to dislodge sediment sticking to the sides. I normally do this twice.

8. You'll see the sediment compact a bit after 5 to 10 to days (this depends on the yeast variety, fining agent, and the wine itself). Rack again to eliminate the sediment. Typically the wine is clear and will drop little or no sediment after this.

9. Age in a carboy according to the kit instructions, or longer if you desire.

If you are satisfied with the wine, bottle it. If you are tweaking the wine, e.g., adding oak cubes to alter the flavor, then age longer in bulk before bottling. Whatever you decide is the right answer.


I tried to be as clear as possible and not use jargon that will be unfamiliar. While the above instructions may seem long, once you've done it a few times, it all makes sense.

 

[Khristyjeff]

I agree with Sour Grapes -- technically it's possible to bottle at 7 days, but the bottles will have chunks in them. It takes longer than a week for the wine to ferment and clear.

Following is a rough guide for wine kit making, based upon the brands I've made. This is not an all-inclusive list, but is designed to help you make sense of the process. Compare this list to your kit instructions and make notes.

If anything is unclear, post new questions.


1. Start the kit according to instructions. Fermentation will generally start within 8 to 48 hours. Yeast is a living thing and will react to its conditions, so all time tables are approximate.

2. Fermentation will normally take between 4 and 10 days. Stir the must daily with a sanitized stirring implement. If there are solids on top, push them down during the stirring.

Sanitizing solution: Stir 3 Tbsp potassium metabisulfite into 1 gallon/4 liters water and keep in a capped jug. This is reusable as long as it stinks and it clear. Never sniff deeply -- you'll cough & choke. Use in a ventilated area; I run a small fan to blow the fumes away.

There is no need to rinse equipment afterward -- just shake off the excess. You're going to put sulfite in the wine, anyway.

3. Rack the wine when the SG is between 1.000 and 1.010. Put it in a sanitized carboy and any extra wine into smaller bottle(s). Since the fermentation is still active, leave a few extra inches of air space to avoid bubbling over the container. CO2 is being released from the wine (hence the bubbling) so air is not a problem at this time.

Note: I have done a first racking when the wine was at 1.020, but prefer it below 1.010. Some folks let the wine ferment completely dry before racking -- I don't like leaving the wine in an open container once fermentation is complete. The wine has a CO2 cushion on top and a day or two should be fine, so this is a personal prejudice on my part.

4. Let the wine set another 5 to 7 days. At this point fermentation should be complete and a fair amount of sediment may have dropped. Check the SG -- if the SG is at or below the level indicated in the instructions, fermentation should be done. Generally reds will be 0.996 or lower, and whites will be 0.998 or lower.

If you're not sure fermentation is complete -- re-read Bernard's advice above, where he goes into detail on determining fermentation is complete.

5. If fermentation is complete, rack the wine, leaving the sediment behind. After the racking, most kits say to stir vigorously. This drives off most of the CO2 -- with CO2 in the wine, it will not clear properly.

Note: I stirred my grape wines last fall -- they cleared in record time.

6. At this point, most kits call for adding sulfite & sorbate, and a fining/clearing agent (typically chitosan & kieselsol). The instructions may call for adding a F-pack/sweetening pack. Use the sequence of actions indicated in the instructions -- these vary a bit from vendor to vendor, and sometimes by kit level.

Rack the wine back into the carboy. This time fill the carboy within a couple inches from the bottom of the stopper. Place any excess in a bottle just big enough to contain it. [It's common to have several smaller bottles.] All containers should have an airlock.

Note: If you do not have enough wine to top up a container, add enough of a similar wine to eliminate the air space. commercial wine is perfectly acceptable.

7. The fining agents work quickly so you'll see a lot of sediment drop within a few days. After a few days, give the carboy a sharp sideways twist to dislodge sediment sticking to the sides. I normally do this twice.

8. You'll see the sediment compact a bit after 5 to 10 to days (this depends on the yeast variety, fining agent, and the wine itself). Rack again to eliminate the sediment. Typically the wine is clear and will drop little or no sediment after this.

9. Age in a carboy according to the kit instructions, or longer if you desire.

If you are satisfied with the wine, bottle it. If you are tweaking the wine, e.g., adding oak cubes to alter the flavor, then age longer in bulk before bottling. Whatever you decide is the right answer.


I tried to be as clear as possible and not use jargon that will be unfamiliar. While the above instructions may seem long, once you've done it a few times, it all makes sense.

Very helpful, Bryan. I'll be starting my first ever kit soon so I really appreciate your information. I'm learning a lot from the other threads as well.

 

[winemaker81]

Glad to be of service!

My son started his first batch of wine recently, a Shiraz kit. He's been helping me for years, but his questions made me realize just how many details and judgment calls are involved. When you're doing this yourself, it's not as easy as it seems to the more experienced folk.

I wish I had a resource like this when I started. My first batch was rhubarb wine, following a recipe published in the local newspaper, using bread yeast, and fermented in a beer ball. It tasted a lot like jet fuel, only stronger ....

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks for your reply you have given me alot of useful information I will go woth the kit information and hope it will all go well. This is my first time brewing so wet with a kit, I have two different kits to try then I will do cider aswell as trying from scratch myself. The kit I am Using is a Solomon grundy savingnon blanc style thought I would try my partners kit before I done my red wine just incase.

See my thoughts on Solomon Grundy here: Merlot Kit tastes sweet and is super thin

 

[szap]

I have made a lot of wine kits and the real key to being ready to bottle a kit is clarity. If you bottle a cloudy wine, you will most likely always have a cloudy wine. It will not usually clear in the bottle.I'm not familiar with the brand kit you are using, but with the brands I've been making you don't even mess with the wine for at least two weeks then another 2 to 6 weeks to clear. I'm not saying you can't make a clear wine in a week, but I find it unlikely.

 

[BernardSmith]

The kieselsol and the chitosan are materials designed to "fine" your wine. They are charged particles (the first I think may be manufactured but the second is made from shell fish) and they attract suspended particles, because of their electrical charges, and their added weight forces the particles to drop out of suspension and so help clear your wine. But I would think that before you add any finings you want to remove as much CO2 from the wine by vigorous stirring (try not to whip air into the wine as you stir) as the CO2 tending to rise through the liquid will neutralize the effects of gravity acting to force particles to the floor of your carboy.