WineXpert Winexpert Selection Speciale New Millenium Sparkling Wine/Sparkling wine in general

[davelochner]

So after much thought I have decided to hold off on making my Shiraz until October. (We've decided to buy fresh juice from Hammersmith Homebrew in Latham, NY.)

Since I can't live with letting my cardboy sitting around and collecting dust, I've decided I'll make yet another white wine in the interim. To make things more interesting I think I'd like to make a sparkling wine... if it is worth it.

After a little research I found WE "Selection Speciale New Millennium Sparkling Wine" kit to be the most attractive kit out there. It won a Best in Show, and has good reviews on some of the sites I saw it on.

Unfortunately, I am a bit of a skeptic and would like to hear some more opinions/stories on this kit, and on making sparkling wine in general. I'm just a little weary of making this and then finding I'd rather "use it to make punch" as I read on another thread here, about this very same kit.

I also have a few questions:

Are there any special supplies needed? (Besides corking and foils)

Do you have any tip or ticks that have worked to improve quailty? (I saw one review stating it is best to let it sit three or four times longer than stated in the WE directions after first racking)

 

[Racer]

If your going to follow the directions to make it a sparkling wine then you will need champagne bottles and proper corks with the wire hoods to go with them. Or crown caps to seal the bottle with.

I've only made that kit once myself so I don't have a good technic for dis-gorging the bottles to pass on to you. I will say that I thought it made a pretty good sparkling wine. I plan on sparkling more wines in the future because of how this one turned out for me.

 

[CB750]

I have made a number of sparkling Meads, If you are a beer brewer the process is quite simple. In the case of mead before you bottle you add some more honey and yeast. This will cause a secondary fermentation in the bottle to give you CO2.

I bottled my Mead in 24 oz beer bottles and used Oxy bottle caps. Being a brewer I never bothered with trying to disgorge the yeast and it never bothered me as I would pour it as I would a bottle of home brew. However you are going to want to store the bottle up right so it settles.

I tried to disgorge the yeast once. I tried the French Champaign process which involves storing the bottle upside down and then putting the neck in an ice brine to freese the crud in the neck. You pop the cork and the pressure of the CO2 will pop out the crud which will look like an popcicle. You fill up the head space with more Champaign. However, the process didn't work well with a beer bottle as the neck is too small and has too much of a taper to work well. Besides it was far to labor intensive process for me to bother with.

 

[Wade E]

If you havent bought this dont IMO. It was pretty nasty!! Instead buy a Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc and use that to make your Sparkling wine. You can download the instructions for the Millenium kit to the "T" to make this that way. You will get a much better product.

 

[wjdonahue]

I make a lot of sparkling wines and agree that you should use a kit that you really like, let it bulk age, and then bottle it in champagne bottles with mushroom stoppers and wire bales.
You will also need a riddling rack to be able to get all of the sediment to the neck before degorging in order to get a clear wine. Careful pouring of the wine doesn't work like it does for beer, since the effervescence on opening will stir up some of the sediment left after bottle fermentation to produce the carbon dioxide no matter how carefully you try to pour it.
Another good trick is to use small plugs designed for the degorging at the time of bottling, and to seal the bottles with beer caps after adding the sugar syrup and while its fermentation is taking place. Then when you freeze the neck during desgorging, the plug holds all of the sediment which comes out nice and clean. Then just top it off and seal with a mushroom cork and wire bale.
The other alternative is to force carbonate and bottle using counter pressure bottling, but the bubbles are much larger and don't last very long

If anyone is interrested, maybe we could start another topic on sparkling wines, techniques, etc.

Bill

 

[davelochner]

If anyone is interrested, maybe we could start another topic on sparkling wines, techniques, etc.

Bill

I think that's a great idea.

I am really interested in trying Methode Champenoise. I've got a few requests to make a rosé brut. Now I think to achieve something of that flavor I really want to mix pinot noir with chardonnay; do it in a traditional french style. Have you tried that? How did it turn out?

So I'll have to buy another carbdboy and some new stoppers plus the chard and pinot kits? Is there any other special equipment I should know of? Or any kits that you could recommend I go with in this blend?

 

[wjdonahue]

The Chard might work but might have too much flavor to add. The traditional French method in the Rheims area is to use only Pinot Noir. Afterall Pinot Noir is the major ingredient in Champagne, white grape with red skin. When crushed it NEVER is left on the skins......therefore white juice. When the make a Rose, they Press the grapes, then add a small amount of the skins back into the must only until the desired color is obtained. This also adds tanins, but in amounts samll enough that it doesn't result in the astringent tannin back palate. Still retains the clean, fruity taste of the Pinot Noir, but with color.
If you have ever worked with Pinot Noir, you know that it never has a deep color, even using pomace to deepen the color, So the pinot skins are easy to use to get just the color you want.....just don't walk away and leave it while the skins are in the must, may darken too much too quickly.
What I would do would be to taste a little bit of the cuvee with the Chard blended in, and see if you like the taste. If you like just the straight Pinot, then add some oak to the Chard, let it bulk age, and just bottle the Chard, just don't oak the chard. If the taste of the Chard and the Pinot isn't to your liking, you might try lighter whites, like Chenin Blanc or Trebiano.

 

[davelochner]

What I would do would be to taste a little bit of the cuvee with the Chard blended in, and see if you like the taste. If you like just the straight Pinot, then add some oak to the Chard, let it bulk age, and just bottle the Chard, just don't oak the chard. If the taste of the Chard and the Pinot isn't to your liking, you might try lighter whites, like Chenin Blanc or Trebiano.

We tried a bottle of straight pinot, a blend, and a straight chard with dinner last night. After a small debate I convinced everyone we will go with a white sparkler made from chard. This will only be my second wine that I make and I'd prefer to keep it as simple possible. The champagne process will be enough to make my head spin anyway!

I plan on going with the MM Chard all juice kit. I am going to follow the direction on this site: http://www.honeycreek.us/sparkling_wine.php

Fingers crossed!

 

[wjdonahue]

Good luck, hope that it turns out great for you. I found that the secret to a good cuve is to let the wine bulk age until ready before turning it into a sparkling wine. Just make suer that you DO NOT use any sorbate, or the secondary fermentation in the bottle will never happen. If I can help you in any way, please feel free to ask.

 

[Wade E]

Let the wine clear well or use a fining agent such as SuperKleer. Id prefer using the fining agent and not bulg aging as yo want o keep the sulfitesdown and leaving it without sulfites long can be an issue. You dont need a riddlingrack, I just use a box with dividers and a towel on the bottom and about every 3 weeks twist the bottles somewhat sharply and hit them down on the towel to help compact the sediment down in the plastic Champange stoppers.

 

[davelochner]

I was planning on bulk aging it on the lees? If anyone can shoot me any knowledge/directions of the sur lie method that would be awesome.

I was also thinking of using a little light toasted oak in the carboy during secondary fermentation for about 10 days. Is that a good idea? I've read that the sur lie method with oaking is a nice way to make Chard and figure it will translate to the champagne as well.

As for riddling, we've already got the rack together with 18 bottles on each side. I plan on doing 45 degree turns daily for about 20-30 days.

After that I'll proceed with the disgorge/top-up/cork stage.

I also plan on making 4 "faux" bottles of water sugar lemon juice and yeast to practice disgorging on before I do the real thing. This disgorging part is what is worrying me the most!

 

[wjdonahue]

Wade...if you have a capper and caps, you should try using bottle caps prior to desgorging instead of champagne corks. An old timer who make sparklings that were extroardinary showed me the trick, and I've been using it ever since. The bottle caps fit and seal perfectly on champagne bottles.
Once you have added the yeast and sugar for the in-bottle krausening, seal using the bottle caps and store upside down in the cases. You will never get ANY leakage with them. When the fermentation is finished, riddle put upside down in a fridge a close to freezing as possible. Desgorgin is a snap, use a rock salt ice slurry, immerse the neck of the bottle, and as soon as you see the plug form, remove the cap and cover the opening with your thumb as usual. Amazingly the small amount of sediment has settled on the cap and comes out perfectly with minimal loss of the wine. Then slowly release the pressure, add the dosage, and cap with the champagne cork and bale. Because the wine is already cold, when the plug is formed, I remove it and immediately place the next bottle in the brine. By the time you desgorge the bottle, the next one is already ready. Saves a lot of time.

 

[wjdonahue]

OH......forgot....the other trick that he showed me that he said made the difference for all his blue ribbons, was that he always added a little brandy in his dosage. Tried it for the first time last year, and wow it does make a difference.
Desgorging is a learned skill, but really isn't difficult, esp if you use the bottle caps which are off quick and easy without having to tease champagne corks out. Yea, you lose a couple of bottles at first, but what is left in them is very refreshing while you desgorge the rest. LOL
The lemon water trick might cause too much CO2. Though lemon is hard to ferment, it does ferment (aka skeeter pee). Might be better for practice to use water with some alcohol, and then add the sugar. Keep it as clear as possible for practice so that you can see the plug. I keep a bunch of clear chapagne bottles around for when I'm teaching somone how to desgorge.