Yeast expiration date

[wineview]

I’m sure this question has been asked before but here goes. I have two packages of EC 1118 with an expiration date of 02/2021. 18 months past due. I have kept the yeast refrigerated all the while in my possession. Should I use it for my Pinot Grigio in about three weeks?

 

[ratflinger]

Well, since it's been in the fridge it's probably still good. However, yeast is cheap and you have 3 weeks, so I'd get some fresh yeast.

 

[salcoco]

check it buy adding it to about 100ml of water at 105F. should bloom in about 10 minutes.

 

[Jim Welch]

I’ve successfully used yeast even further past expiration that had been refrigerated at least while in my possession AND that after I proofed and incorporated into modest starters showed vigorous activity.
I’d combine both ratflinger and salcoco’s advice, buy fresh yeast to have in case (or for your next batch) and proof what you have.

 

[wineview]

I’ve successfully used yeast even further past expiration that had been refrigerated at least while in my possession AND that after I proofed and incorporated into modest starters showed vigorous activity.
I’d combine both ratflinger and salcoco’s advice, buy fresh yeast to have in case (or for your next batch) and proof what you have.

Copy.

 

[Rice_Guy]

ALL industry code dates have safety factor built in, in this case what if the yeast lived in a hot spot in warehouse where and the AC was set at 85F?
,,,, The Risk to the organism? Yeast die at elevated temperature as 130F may take a week and 150F may take ten minutes and 170F ten seconds

Inoculated cultures is a numbers game, ie put enough cells in to have visible growth in ten or sixty minutes. I have used years past code date yeast which was stored in the fridge without any issue ,,, and expect good performance on five year old cultures.

 

[Raptor99]

I have used years past code date yeast which was stored in the fridge without any issue ,,, and expect good performance on five year old cultures.

I keep my yeast in the fridge, or sometimes in the freezer. When stored that way, it can be used way past the expiration date. I usually make a starter, so if the yeast is past the expiration date I can verify that it is viable before adding it to the wine.

 

[BigDaveK]

Cold/frozen yeast may be viable for a millennia. The Norwegian seed vault comes to mind.

Heat is the issue, like @Rice_Guy said. I stocked up on yeast before spring because I didn't want to worry about summer temps in warehouses and trucks. Into the fridge. Hopefully I got fresh yeast.

 

[winemaker81]

check it buy adding it to about 100ml of water at 105F. should bloom in about 10 minutes.

Yup -- it will either work or it won't work.

I'd make an overnight starter with a bit of sugar + nutrient. If the package is declining, this gives the yeast the opportunity to grow in a more ideal environment, increasing the likelihood of success.

 

[wineview]

Speaking of nutrients, what do you like? Fermax, Go Ferm or Urea and diamonium phosphate

 

[Rice_Guy]

Speaking of nutrients, what do you like? Fermax, Go Ferm or Urea and diamonium phosphate

Not urea, not DAP
YES for Fermaid O, ,,,, ie organic nitrogen. The lit says it is smoother and club members pushed me to move away from chemical nitrogen.

 

[wineview]

Not urea, not DAP
YES for Fermaid O, ,,,, ie organic nitrogen. The lit says it is smoother and club members pushed me to move away from chemical nitrogen.

Not urea, not DAP
YES for Fermaid O, ,,,, ie organic nitrogen. The lit says it is smoother and club members pushed me to move away from chemical nitrogen.

I am in agreement with you. Then I recently bought a couple of FWK. Both of the nutrient packages that are included with these really good kits is Urea and DAP. Although the wines are still young, all signs are pointing to a very good wine. Can you tell me specifically what Urea and DAP do to a wine that would keep your club members away from it? What is the down side of chemical nitrogen ?

 

[Rice_Guy]

@wineview The explanation which I like is that giving chemical nitrogen to yeast is like giving candy to a two year old > gets really hyper > crashes. This can be tracked by looking at cell population. An organic nitrogen gives a smoother curve with lower measured YAN and less risk of a stuck fermentation.
This Scott labs course is a good basic micro course.
If I had a project on kits, my primary driver would be to have the fermentation done in two weeks > kill the yeast > move on to clarification.

 

[wineview]

I have heard the candy comparison before. Let me push this a bit further. As I mentioned the FWK with DAP and Urea seem to be going in the right direction and I had no issues with stuck fermentation. They all fermented down to .996. Would I be risking a batch if I continued this practice?

 

[wineview]

Not urea, not DAP
YES for Fermaid O, ,,,, ie organic nitrogen. The lit says it is smoother and club members pushed me to move away from chemical nitrogen.

what about this Fermax?



Fermax is a blend of diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, and autolyzed yeast that improves attenuation and speed of fermentation.Apr 10, 2022

 

[winemaker81]

Would I be risking a batch if I continued this practice?

Nope. Although I won't argue with @Rice_Guy's presentation, my experience is that FWK ferment to completion, typically in record time. I do take into consideration the overnight starter, which ensures the yeast colony is healthy and growing before inoculation.

what about this Fermax?

I've been using it a long time, at least 10 years, and it has always worked fine.

 

[wineview]

Nope. Although I won't argue with @Rice_Guy's presentation, my experience is that FWK ferment to completion, typically in record time. I do take into consideration the overnight starter, which ensures the yeast colony is healthy and growing before inoculation.


I've been using it a long time, at least 10 years, and it has always worked fine.

Nope. Although I won't argue with @Rice_Guy's presentation, my experience is that FWK ferment to completion, typically in record time. I do take into consideration the overnight starter, which ensures the yeast colony is healthy and growing before inoculation.


I've been using it a long time, at least 10 years, and it has always worked fine.

Here is what I was thinking. I welcome any feedback. I have always started my wine mid September with fresh juice buckets. This winter I tried a few FWK and am pleased with how they are coming along. So this September I want to try using my juice buckets duplicating their methods.

Here are the steps:
Day 1: Place skins in muslin bags, add seed pack, oak chips, and starter packet "A" which contains one tablespoons of acid blend, pectic enzyme and diamonium phosphate.
Day 2: Make yeast starter and pour into must.
At 48 hours add Pack "C" 15g Urea and diamonium phosphate.
Day 3: snap cover closed for 14 days with airlock on bucket. At this point I would like to add a bentonite slurry because I will not add Chitosan and Kieselsol.
What flaws if any do you see.

Thanks

 

[winemaker81]

What flaws if any do you see.

Overall, your process is fine. I have comments, but if you change nothing, IMO you're fine.

I can't comment on the amounts of additives, but I assume you know what you're doing. I'd make the yeast starter one Day 1 and inoculate on Day 2, as it gives the yeast a day in a more ideal environment to multiply, so your colony is stronger. I've been making overnight starters for a year (at this point), and practical evidence is that it produces a quicker and stronger ferment.

Although I've used Bentonite for decades, research in the last couple of years indicates it can reduce color in reds by up to 15%. Supposedly adding it before fermentation starts reduces this negative effect, but I haven't see enough research on it to be sure. Why not use K&C?

I've been adding ScottZyme ColorPro to reds the last couple of years, and did it with FWK Forte kits last fall, and it greatly improves color extraction. I recommend it.

 

[wineview]

Overall, your process is fine. I have comments, but if you change nothing, IMO you're fine.

I can't comment on the amounts of additives, but I assume you know what you're doing. I'd make the yeast starter one Day 1 and inoculate on Day 2, as it gives the yeast a day in a more ideal environment to multiply, so your colony is stronger. I've been making overnight starters for a year (at this point), and practical evidence is that it produces a quicker and stronger ferment.

Although I've used Bentonite for decades, research in the last couple of years indicates it can reduce color in reds by up to 15%. Supposedly adding it before fermentation starts reduces this negative effect, but I haven't see enough research on it to be sure. Why not use K&C?

I've been adding ScottZyme ColorPro to reds the last couple of years, and did it with FWK Forte kits last fall, and it greatly improves color extraction. I recommend it.

I had a lengthy conversation with Matt at Label Peelers. He said Pack “A” doesn’t always contain acid blend depending how acidic the juice is. I don’t have a way to test the acid levels. If I added a less than a tablespoon of acid blend along with pectic enzyme and a nutrient would I be risking anything? Also, I am considering using Fermax nutrient, because I have it on hand, instead of diamonium phosphate. Would that be a better choice? DAP seems to get a bad rap.

Lots of questions I know. Thanks in advance for sticking with me.

 

[winemaker81]

I had a lengthy conversation with Matt at Label Peelers. He said Pack “A” doesn’t always contain acid blend depending how acidic the juice is. I don’t have a way to test the acid levels. If I added a less than a tablespoon of acid blend along with pectic enzyme and a nutrient would I be risking anything? Also, I am considering using Fermax nutrient, because I have it on hand, instead of diamonium phosphate. Would that be a better choice? DAP seems to get a bad rap.

I mis-read your statement, thinking the "1 Tbsp" was a mixture of things. IMO, skip the acid blend as you have no idea what the acid level is -- in all likelihood, it's fine. Post-fermentation you can adjust by taste. Keep in mind that it's far easier to add more than to take some out.

The nutrient you have on hand is a good choice, so I'd use the Fermax. I have a large-ish container on my shelf that will go into this fall's grapes.

Note that all nutrients do the same job, although they have different qualities that makes them more-or-less suited to a particular job. While there is science behind some of the opinions, I keep in mind that a lot of it is preference.