2017 Harford Vineyard Chilean Grape/Juice Pickup

[Boatboy24]

OK, this is a bit off topic, but since the issue is arising with these grapes/buckets, I'll pose it here: What's more important, pH or TA? TA is a measure of the amount of acid, but pH tells us the strength of that acid. I now tend to go by 1) taste, 2) pH and 3) TA. If my taste tells me the wine is sharp or flat, I'll first test pH to confirm my taste buds. I always measure pH, but if that and taste are in line, I will often skip TA. Maybe I shouldn't, but that's been my practice the last couple years.

 

[zadvocate]

I would double check you TA test kit my hydro that I just bought was bad and my numbers were crazy. Morewine replaced it. I did an Accuvin SO2 test and it came in at 18 ppm on my grapes. it's hard to see the chart but that's how I interpreted the results.

 

[ceeaton]

I have the goop to test my normal solution, and it tested fine. I think the TA is just low with the Syrah. I noticed absolutely no unripe berries, normally there are a few "greenies" in a lug, and I had many more raisined grapes than ever before. That would point to a higher Brix and a lower TA, but a lower Brix and a lower TA make no sense, which is what we got.

Let's see how these wines taste after fermentation and go from there, don't quite know what else to do at this point. Don't want to elevate the TA if there is nothing body wise to support it. The pH is okay, so I'm sticking with that. I expect the pH to go through the roof upon MLF completion, we'll see.

PS. I just had my arm stick to my desk and realized that I had a bunch of grape goodies on the bottom of my arm. I ceremonially licked my arm clean as I made sure no one was coming down the basement stairs. I love juice from fresh grapes...

 

[cmason1957]

OK, this is a bit off topic, but since the issue is arising with these grapes/buckets, I'll pose it here: What's more important, pH or TA? TA is a measure of the amount of acid, but pH tells us the strength of that acid. I now tend to go by 1) taste, 2) pH and 3) TA. If my taste tells me the wine is sharp or flat, I'll first test pH to confirm my taste buds. I always measure pH, but if that and taste are in line, I will often skip TA. Maybe I shouldn't, but that's been my practice the last couple years.

I do exactly what you do. And didn't even check the pH of my Chilean buckets. I believe ph is more important and will check it after ferment, before I pitch my MLB. Then again after malolactic completes to know how much So2 to add.

 

[ceeaton]

I have the goop to test my normal solution, and it tested fine. I think the TA is just low with the Syrah. I noticed absolutely no unripe berries, normally there are a few "greenies" in a lug, and I had many more raisined grapes than ever before. That would point to a higher Brix and a lower TA, but a lower Brix and a lower TA make no sense, which is what we got.

Nice thing about AMH yeast is it takes at least a day to get going, so I pulled a larger sample (15 ml) this morning for the sake of added accuracy and retested and got a TA of 3.8 g/L, a little better (plus it is easier for me not to overshoot my 8.2 pH endpoint with the larger sample).

 

[AZMDTed]

I wasn't sure when I'd get up there for my lone lug of Chile Cab grapes so I didn't post earlier. Was able to get it late Saturday afternoon. Beautiful drive up there. Sunday morning I destemmed, squished, and added a little over half a teaspoon of pectic enzyme. I just checked the SG and was surprised to see it at 1.103. Nice. I got nearly a gallon and a half of juice from it and a couple nice bags of skins, and lots of seeds.

I don't know about pH or acid levels. It was a nice learning experience playing with a small lug and doing it all by hand. I know I got good advice to alter my plan, but I'm going ahead and mixed the grape juice with an Eclipse Lodi Cab kit and am fermenting both together, with the two bags of skins and the kit skin pack.

All good experience for more grapes later.

 

[ceeaton]

All three batches going full bore, added my first (and possibly last) addition of Fermaid O to the Syrah and Muscato. Noticed that my Fermaid O is all gone, time to order some more. No off aromas yet, and really don't expect any with D21 and AMH since they are rather forgiving yeast nutrient wise. In a pinch I do have some DAP in my "wine box" if I need it. Bag o' grapes floating high and dry this morning, squeezed twice this morning, will do the same tonight. If like any other AMH batch, I suspect this will be a long and steady ferment with those skins. Nothing like grape juice on the arms in the morning to wake you up!

 

[dcbrown73]

I prepped these on Thursdays, this morning when I got up for work. The CO2 smell was stronger than I've ever smelled it. (never had two batches in primary fermentation at the same time)

Both are fermenting with potency!

 

[ceeaton]

Checked SG after squeezing the grape bag this morning, 1.042. Never did make an acid adjustment or add any simple syrup, so might consider that this afternoon as I'm thinking of taking 1/2 day so I can get the lawn done before the end of week/weekend washout occurs. Still no abnormal aromas from any of the three batches, two blurping right along, the other sizzling when I take the brute lid off.

 

[Bodenski]

I bought two buckets and one lug. My Pinot Grigio bucket (Chilean) doesn't seem to be doing much yet. I'm using 71B yeast on it. I split the South African Cab bucket into two, and added the lug of grapes to one of them. Those are both fermenting away.

THis evening I'll check the SG on the PG to see if it's moving along but just quietly or not. If not, I do have another packet of 71B, and I'll use GoFerm and slowly add must to it to make sure it's bubbling away before adding it to the rest of the bucket.

 

[Boatboy24]

@mainshipfred: how's your fermentation coming along?

 

[mainshipfred]

@mainshipfred: how's your fermentation coming along?

It's not, I'm doing a cold extended maceration. It's in my cooler @57*, the brix as of yesterday went from 21.5 to almost 23 didn't check the Ph. Used K-meta to kill the wild yeast and it seems to be working since my brix is going up. Never had a chance to get the TA test kit since work has been too busy. Probably pick it up Friday or Saturday make the adjustments and pitch Sunday or Monday. I know it doesn't appear anyone is worried about the TA but I would at least like to see what it is so I can compare it to future batches.

Edit: the wild yeast must have taken over. Fermentation started. Added a pack of BM 4x4 and raised the temp of the cooler to 62.

 

[Bodenski]

As a follow-up, my Pinot Grigio bucket is now fermenting along just fine. Just needed a little more time. Did a big squeeze on the grapes in the bag today for the Cab bucket. RIght now I can't tell any difference in taste between the bucket with grapes and the bucket of straight juice. Maybe with time it will be more noticeable.

Overall I'm happy with how things are going.

 

[ceeaton]

I know it doesn't appear anyone is worried about the TA but I would at least like to see what it is so I can compare it to future batches.

You can always adjust after you ferment. Sometimes it is just easier to go 1/2 way before and then correct a tidbit after. Most important thing is how it tastes, not the numbers. Numbers help you get close to what should taste good, but I've had plenty of tasty wines I've tested and the TA and pH aren't optimal, whatever optimal is...

I would add that some MLB strains do better at different pH's. In that case it's better to adjust up front and hope that fermentation doesn't change it too much as to knock it out of your MLB's optimal range.

 

[Ajmassa]

This batch was the first time I've adjusted pre-ferment. In hindsight I would have cut the acid addition in half. But I read this article 2 before I started which changed my perspective about the benefits of a more balanced must during the ferment

https://winemakermag.com/1013-creating-a-balanced-must

 

[ceeaton]

The SG was 1.020 in the Syrah this morning. I did add 15 oz sugar + 1 cup water + 15g tartaric (heated and cooled) syrup to raise alcohol level to around 13% if it goes to 0.994 or lower, which I expect. No off aromas on any of the batches. Did get some sticky oozing out the top of the muscato bucket (used lid with a hole drilled and an airlock) that I had to clean up, otherwise all seems to be going well. AMH batches (Syrah and Chianti) moving a long a little quicker than I anticipated. Ambient temperature is 68*F in the house, measured 72*F in the Syrah this morning (outside of brute is noticeably warmer than its surroundings). Muscato is in the basement with an ambient temperature of 64*F and D21 yeast.

I'd say I could move that brute into the bedroom to keep me warm at night, but when my wife reads this I may end up with my wish coming true, but my bed being the living room couch.

 

[mainshipfred]

After pitching the 4X4 Tuesday when I noticed the wild yeast taking over the SG is down to 1.064. Not sure if it's still the wild yeast or the 4X4 but there is a nice slow fermentation and it smells pretty grapy, no off odors. Will see what it's like tomorrow and may add some nutrient. May also follow Craigs lead and add some sugar and tartaric.

 

[ceeaton]

After pitching the 4X4 Tuesday when I noticed the wild yeast taking over the SG is down to 1.064. Not sure if it's still the wild yeast or the 4X4 but there is a nice slow fermentation and it smells pretty grapy, no off odors. Will see what it's like tomorrow and may add some nutrient. May also follow Craigs lead and add some sugar and tartaric.

I think that by now the 4x4 has taken over. Just so you know my measurements were based on 6 gallons, not the 7 or so we'll probably get. I expect that there was an increase in my starting gravity the longer the grapes were in the bucket juice. I expect my TA to raise up to between 4.2 and 4.5 g/L and my calculated SG to be around 1.090-1.092 which is pretty close to 13% ABV if it goes dry.

Nice that we are making the same grape varietal using different yeast. I'll use some Xoakers for oak and I'm assuming you'll use your new barrel, so we'll have something to swap in two or three years to compare!

 

[mainshipfred]

I think that by now the 4x4 has taken over. Just so you know my measurements were based on 6 gallons, not the 7 or so we'll probably get. I expect that there was an increase in my starting gravity the longer the grapes were in the bucket juice. I expect my TA to raise up to between 4.2 and 4.5 g/L and my calculated SG to be around 1.090-1.092 which is pretty close to 13% ABV if it goes dry.

Nice that we are making the same grape varietal using different yeast. I'll use some Xoakers for oak and I'm assuming you'll use your new barrel, so we'll have something to swap in two or three years to compare!

As far a making the same wine I'm probably going to do the MLF at least after primary and possibly after secondary so we will have a few differences to compare. When I was working on the winery they always did it after secondary. Unfortunately that winemaker left and I don't know where he went. This Sunday I'm going to a wine education gathering at another winery. It's about aging wine so I'll ask this winemaker what they do. Yes, it's going in the barrel.

 

[ceeaton]

As far a making the same wine I'm probably going to do the MLF at least after primary and possibly after secondary so we will have a few differences to compare. When I was working on the winery they always did it after secondary. Unfortunately that winemaker left and I don't know where he went. This Sunday I'm going to a wine education gathering at another winery. It's about aging wine so I'll ask this winemaker what they do. Yes, it's going in the barrel.

Once I hit about 1.000 or below (depending on when I catch it) I will rack it, let it settle for a few days, rack again, then pitch the MLF rehydrated in Acti-ML per the instructions. I like to keep the process moving along since I haven't added any sulfites yet. As we figured out last Spring, those pads they ship it with have sulfites in them. This year I could smell them in my kitchen trash container when I took it out Sunday night for pickup on Monday. How much, who knows? You'd have to test after crushing them.

Wine education is always good, especially if you get to educate your palate with their wine!